12th Btn Kings Liverpool Regiment

[busterwood]

Looking for the war diary that covers the period around 1st May 1917 for 12th Battalion Kings Liverpool Regiment.

My Great Uncle was killed on this day, and need any information at hand, also any Battalion/Company photos from the period prior to his death.... I don't know his Company details sorry

Sergeant Arthur Parker 14811 aged 22years

Regards

Geoff

[GraemeClarke]

Hi Geoff

You will find them on Ancestry, your local library most probably has access, or, for the price of a pint, download the complete diary

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353118

The Regimental History is here

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u3O-BAAAQBAJ&pg=PA467&lpg=PA467&dq=Arthur+Parker+14811&source=bl&ots=qd_wz6lBPC&sig=YeuUJepS-s5fS0oTqJ6qdJ-FWX4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixkY6ow8DKAhXFhQ8KHePgCv4Q6AEILzAC#v=onepage&q=Arthur%20Parker%2014811&f=false

Regards,

Graeme

PS. Theres a lot of chit chat about him on the Forum

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=118192

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=98577

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43950

I presume you are Timberwood in another guise.

[busterwood]

Hello Graeme,

yes you are quite correct as to my last entries on the forum. I still have no other information and really would like to find more....

I really would like to pin point the area of his death, in and around Havering Wood and then visit what is there to pay homage..

I would like also to find trench maps etc that may help me, any ideas will be very appreciated Graeme

Cheers for now

Geoff

[KevinBattle]

Welcome aboard.

I can see why you'll need the War Diary.

CWGC have 3 men killed on 1st May:-

PARKER, ARTHUR. Rank: Serjeant. Service No: 14811. Date of Death: 01/05/1917.

Regiment/Service: The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 12th Bn.

Panel Reference: Pier and Face 1 D 8 B and 8 C. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL.

HOBAN, JOHN. Rank: Private. Service No: 18737. Date of Death: 01/05/1917.

Regiment/Service: The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 12th Bn.

Panel Reference: Pier and Face 1 D 8 B and 8 C. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL.

BANNISTER, MATTHEW. Rank: Private. Service No: 13986. Date of Death: 01/05/1917.

Regiment/Service: The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 12th Bn.

Panel Reference: Pier and Face 1 D 8 B and 8 C. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL.

The CWGC entry also has a tab for the Concentration details, and shows him as A Company.

It also shows Arthur, Hoban and Bannister all being Killed in Action near Havrincourt, with the notation "Crosses found without bodies" so it seems something must have displaced the crosses from the actual burial site in Hermies Hill British Cemetery.

The same Map Reference applies to this chap

BRADLEY, ERNEST. Rank: Private. Service No: 38914. Date of Death: 04/05/1917. Age: 25.

Regiment/Service: The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 12th Bn.

Panel Reference: Pier and Face 1 D 8 B and 8 C. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL.

Additional Information: Son of Mrs. Helen Bradley, of 37, Chirkdale St., Kirkdale; husband of Margaret Jane Bradley, of 26, Summer Gardens, Kirkdale, Liverpool.

It would seem that these men were properly buried in or near Hermies Hill Cemetery but whilst their Memorial Crosses survived (albeit with apparently incorrect initials and showing Arthur as Temporary Sgt) the actual graves were lost in subsequent fighting and no remains found at the given map reference.

EDIT: Ah! Already know most of this!

[busterwood]

Hello Kevin,

now this gives me much more to go on than I previously had, yes I knew of the two others killed on the same day, so only could presume they were all killed together. From what you say, looks like the temp grave was probably hit by shell fire and the bodies gone forever ??? But it gives me much information to go at, Arthur's Company being now "A" Coy (Thank you), also the proximity of the former grave area (Again Many Thanks)

I also wonder if Ernest Bradley was with the party when hit, and looks like later died of wounds ?? Loads for me to go at now, I might even be able to find a Company photo, it won't be hard to pull out a Sergeant from them Hmmm puzzled about the Temp Sgt rank, maybe made up recently through losses in action ??

I am getting more facts this time from Forum members than the last time I posted, years ago. I am now a happy guy, just need to tie the location down using the War Diary.

Many,Many Thanks Kevin

All the very best

Geoff

[busterwood]

Found out from a Memorial at his Grammar School, that he was actually Acting Sergeant Major when killed. There must have been some losses in the Company leading up to this fact, as he was a Sergeant and looks like he leapt two ranks ???

Any information would be of help, States Sgt Major Arthur Parker......

[ss002d6252]

Found out from a Memorial at his Grammar School, that he was actually Acting Sergeant Major when killed. There must have been some losses in the Company leading up to this fact, as he was a Sergeant and looks like he leapt two ranks ???

Any information would be of help, States Sgt Major Arthur Parker......

His service number dates from late August / early September 14 - this gives him 33 months service (34 max) at the time he died.

The War Gratuity was paid based on him being a sergeant with 33 months service at the time of his death (£18 10s gross). If he had an acting rank he would have been paid at a higher rate.

Craig

[busterwood]

Craig,

many thanks for this information.... It is such a grey area, and I only found this from a snippet of information from Grammar School records, which can be a little blown out of proportion to have their "Old Boys" senior etc etc. Everything else lists him as Sergeant, but was just thinking it could've been a role taken with high losses prior to the date of his death. One would hope so, but official records as you have found say no !!!!

Really would be nice to get my hands on the War Diaries, I know he was "A" Coy, sure there could be more to find ???

Cheers

Geoff