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AliceF

German cemeteries in France

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PascalMallet
19 hours ago, charlie2 said:

Thank you Pascal that would be very helpful.

 

Hi Charlie,

 

I just hang off with Rumaucourt city hall, and sadly they have no book.

 

Pascal

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charlie2

Thank you Pascal, I appreciate your help.

 

Charlie

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AliceF

Great that you have tried!

Christine

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PascalMallet

Hello,

 

Looking for something else for a friend (Black Americans of 369th RI US coming to fight in France in 1918), I found kind of a mine of pictures about WW1 (and more). I post two of them shot in Carency (Pas-de-Calais) on May 22nd, 1915 and showing German graves inside the village. Text says that statues were taken from church to go on officers graves.

 

Here is the link to that website: http://argonnaute.u-paris10.fr/

and how to use it:

   - First accept cookies or that bar will hide details later on.

   - Click on [Recherche] button.

   - For German cemeteries, type "cimetière allemand".

   - For a place, just type its name, or add it to "cimetière allemand". "Avant-guerre" means "before the war".

(it will be my Christmas gift for the ones who don't know it :-).

 

Inside same website, I found issues of Berliner illustrirt Zeitung dated 1914 to 1944 that may be of some interest for you. Here is the link: http://argonnaute.u-paris10.fr/ark:/14707/a011446477836Hq49gs/from/a0114452393451SCg7j Other newspapers are available (one is in Dutch). Here is the main link to newspapers: http://argonnaute.u-paris10.fr/ark:/14707/a011406131043hqToci/from/a011445238154FYe1iZ

 

Merry Christmas for all of you!

 

Pascal

 

1915-Carency-1.JPG.246e416e6d9478253abeb5c71244eca8.JPG1915-Carency-2.JPG.abb7828a6d6feafead623cf04d86e1be.JPG

 

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PascalMallet

Here is the text (in French) I wrote about Comines and St.-Laurent-Blangy German cemeteries. As my main goal was to collect information about French soldiers who have been buried by Germans, it is not a dedicated work to those places. So it is not comprehensive, and a good part of it is without interest here. But those few French's fate was so nested to their one-time enemies' that I speak also a lot about Germans, and they all stay together now.

 

Pascal

 

Soldats français du cimetière de Comines.pdf

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Martin Feledziak
19 hours ago, PascalMallet said:

(Black Americans of 369th RI US coming to fight in France in 1918)

 

Thanks for the Christmas present Pascal - Some great photographs in the album for SERVON -

 

I bet you must have been looking at Pvt Henry JOHNSON too.

 

Martin

 

Edited by Martin Feledziak

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PascalMallet
3 hours ago, Martin Feledziak said:

I bet you must have been looking at Pvt Henry JOHNSON too.

 

Hi Martin,

 

We had a very interesting TV documentary about US 369th RI, and it reminds me researches I did for a friend of mine who is an African American. His father fought* with 370th what was also involved in East of France battles in 1918, together with 369th. So my previous information were only about WW2, and I discovered Henry Johnson's story... and how those courageous fellows were badly treated when they went back to the South states. *In WW2 and it was still a "segragated regiment".

 

Pascal

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mva

Pascal, BRAVO, this is excellent !

of course, it reminds me of 'au revoir là-haut' & Dorgelès' 'le réveil des morts' - & of the recent discovery in Spincourt http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/Pages-memoire-necropoles-MPLF-MDH/cimetiere-provisoire-spincourt-sujet_7607_2.htm#bas

Will you publish this research or just put it in internet ?

kind regards, martine

PS - will you tell about it in the French forum 14-18 (above) ?

Edited by mva
added ps

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AliceF

Thanks for the link, Pascal! Had a quick look at some of the photos. Nice source, will it explore more later on.

Well, my Christmas holidays have started. I am on the way northwards.

 

Christine

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PascalMallet
On 21/12/2017 at 18:57, mva said:

Will you publish this research or just put it in internet ?

kind regards, martine

PS - will you tell about it in the French forum 14-18 (above) ?

Bonjour Martine,

 

That text should be published in Comines-Warneton historical society yearly revue, but it has been discarded because they had a lot of texts this year, and already a big one about Comines-France. Also, they don't want to increase number of pages because of weight. It will maybe be published end of 2018, maybe not. So, right now, I decided to not keep it in my drawer and to "give" it to anyone has been involded in that research.

 

For Spincourt, see my PM.

 

Pascal

 

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PascalMallet

First of all, best wishes for 2018 to everyone.

 

I was at the cemetery of the town where I was born (Longpont-sur-Orge, 91) and I noticed that the monument for Prussian soldiers who died in 1870 has been renewed. It was in such a bad shape that I had completely forgotten it was there. See pictures below, and here is the translation: "In memory of the 39 Prussian soldiers who died of typhus in Longpont in autumn 1870. Monument and burial maintained by the municipality in a spirit of reciprocity, in accordance with the Treaty of Frankfurt of 1871". So, 150 years after that war, that grave is still maintained. I also post a text in French that explains the situation: Le-monument-prussien-v1.pdf and also a link to a more precise website: http://vieux-marcoussis.pagesperso-orange.fr/Chroniques/prussiens.htm

 

Shortly: during 1870-1871 war, Prussians were in Longpont and towns around (20-25 km South of Paris) and they settled a Feldlazarett in Villebouzin mansion, in a hamlet belonging to Longpont. There were up to 500 soldiers there, and 39 died of typhus. They have been buried in a field nearby, where they remained after war (during more than a century, that place was officialy called "bois (wood) des Prussiens" or "cimetière des Prussiens"), as you can see it on the map in the website above. In 1875, German government asks for they are put in a Christian land, so they have been moved to the city cemetery in 1877 and a monument was erected.

 

Pascal

 

IMG_7286.JPG.a09f674feb8cfbb9961b0a8cc1b1efca.JPG

 

IMG_7289.JPG.9e34cf83bd4cfbc86398a2c50acec826.JPG

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ejwalshe

Montmedy Germany Cemetery/Deutscher Soldatenfriedhof Montmedy

 

Could this be the only Volksbund cemetery containing commonwealth soldiers?

 

According to the CWGC search facility, it is.

 

I suspect these four men were identified after the concentration of graves by the IWGC; for if their locations had been known, would they not have been exhumed from this cemetery and placed in a CWGC cemetery like thousands of others?

 

Q: The big question is, when were these men given an identifying CWGC headstone?

 

Q: And, are there other commonwealth soldiers in Volksbund cemeteries not revealed by the CWGC search utility?

 

I will be visiting this cemetery on the 21st of April 2018 (and the citadel at Montmedy for a spectacular view).

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AOK4
7 minutes ago, ejwalshe said:

Montmedy Germany Cemetery/Deutscher Soldatenfriedhof Montmedy

 

Could this be the only Volksbund cemetery containing commonwealth soldiers?

 

According to the CWGC search facility, it is.

 

I suspect these four men were identified after the concentration of graves by the IWGC; for if their locations had been known, would they not have been exhumed from this cemetery and placed in a CWGC cemetery like thousands of others?

 

Q: The big question is, when were these men given an identifying CWGC headstone?

 

Q: And, are there other commonwealth soldiers in Volksbund cemeteries not revealed by the CWGC search utility?

 

I will be visiting this cemetery on the 21st of April 2018 (and the citadel at Montmedy for a spectacular view).

 

No,

 

There's a plaque to two Brits in Langemark, and a headstone for an unknown Brit at Le Cateau.

All cases are British soldiers who were buried in mass/row graves among German soldiers. It was impossible to get the British dead out of there afterwards.

One should remember that there are undoubtedly many more British soldiers among the unknowns of Langemark Kameradengrab.

 

Jan

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SteveMarsdin

As the 4 CWGC casualties st Montmedy are buried in a mass grave with those of several other nations I don’t think it would’ve been possible to exhume them.

 

Steve

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ejwalshe

Something doesn't smell right.   The four CWGC casualties are buried in individual graves according to the headstones (I've seen photos of each grave) - there is nothing on their headstones indicating they are in a mass grave, i.e., "Believed to be buried in this cemetery" or "Buried somewhere within this cemetery" is not engraved on their headstones.  What led you to believe they are buried in a mass grave, Steve?

 

If it is the case, that they are not buried under their headstones, the CWGC should be instructed to alter the inscription on their headstones.

 

And so true, Jan, any unknown soldier in any cemetery can possibly be attributed to one of many nationalities.

 

Edited by ejwalshe

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SteveMarsdin

It’s a few years since I was last at the cemetery but I seem to recall there being a plaque saying the various nationalities were in one mass grave. You’ll be there before I’m next there so please check (annoyingly I can’t find my photos !)

 

Steve

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Phil Evans

From the way I understand, from the CWGC documentation and the photos here, three are in one mass grave and the fourth is in another.

The Register and CWGC online cemetery description both explain the fact that they are in mass graves. I assume that the headstones are atop the relevant mass grave, though not over the exact point of burial.

 

Phil

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SteveMarsdin

I've now found some of my photos from 2010 and although not the best, they do confirm those that Phil posted a link to:

5a5d18fbcfba1_Easter2010046.jpg.356252c32def82512ae7434238412ad8.jpg5a5d191d2610c_Easter2010054.thumb.jpg.57959a1adf801569347bf1db6cd2cb0f.jpg

 

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ejwalshe

Thanks Steve & Phil....apparent to me now the inscription at the top of their CWGC headstones should read "BURIED NEAR THIS SPOT"

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ejwalshe

 

 

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AliceF

Thank you for sharing! Beautiful spring atmosphere and very peaceful.

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ejwalshe

12th October 1918....Several photos I came across in research for daily images "100 YEARS AGO TODAY"

 

© IWM (Q 9540) A German war cemetery containing five thousand graves at Sailly-sur-la-Lys, 12 October 1918.

acc7jllo9d3yg6a6g.jpg

 

© IWM (Q 9541) A German war cemetery containing five thousand graves at Sailly-sur-la-Lys, 12 October 1918.

4ze75818r9z6cdc6g.jpg

 

 

© IWM (Q 9542) A German war cemetery containing five thousand graves at Sailly-sur-la-Lys, 12 October 1918.

9g024ov5osgzaz76g.jpg

 

 

© IWM (Q 9543) A German war cemetery containing five thousand graves at Sailly-sur-la-Lys, 12 October 1918.

162zd2yr2spo6s56g.jpg

 

 

© IWM (Q 9544) A German war cemetery containing five thousand graves at Sailly-sur-la-Lys, 12 October 1918.

5qeap29by9ynmr26g.jpg

 

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