flers1916 Posted 1 November , 2015 Share Posted 1 November , 2015 Advice please. I have a 'typical' Lee Enfield SMLE Nr.1 Mk.III* and would now like a German rifle as used on the Western Front. I have seen for sale, for me, a bewildering number of Gewer 98 types so I would like some advice please about which one I should buy. It would also be helpful if someone could tell me about a deactivated rifle they have seen currently on sale that seems to be a good example. All advice will be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 November , 2015 Share Posted 1 November , 2015 ... ... a bewildering number of Gewer 98 types ... I am not a rifle person, but I know a little about the Gew.98 and was confused by what you mean about a 'bewildering' number of Gew.98 types - if you mean those used in WW1, that is! Essentially, from what little I know, there is only one infantry type, although I understand that the carbine type does come in two versions, the later one with a bayonet bar, the earlier one without - and neither, of course, to be confused with the Gew.98 Kar of WW2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flers1916 Posted 1 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 1 November , 2015 Sorry - just shows how ignorant I am about this subject. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 1 November , 2015 Share Posted 1 November , 2015 Go to Deactivated Guns Co Uk. Page 2 shows two examples. One is sold but they are WW1 examples. The one for sale still is 1915 a rarer date. Looks as if woodwork cleaned though? It will give you the type you need and start for a reference. No link to company and no comments re the item. Hope this helps. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerhunter Posted 1 November , 2015 Share Posted 1 November , 2015 Why not a live G98? It isn't that difficult to get a Firearm Certificate for a 7.92mm rifle. If one doesn't want to fire it then "part of a collection" is a "good reason". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 1 November , 2015 Share Posted 1 November , 2015 In terms of what to look for -- one of the easiest shorthand/first glance indicators on GEW 98 type rifles is the "rollercoaster" rear sight. Many of the rifles that continued on in service had these replaced (this includes many of the GEW98s that were retained by Germany in the 1920s/30s and into WWII) There are a lot of Turkish Mausers in circulation which also closely resemble the GEW 98 format (but mostly date from the 30s and 40s) and these too have a flat rear sight leaf. Here are the basic German WWI types: Kar 88 Gew 88 Gew 98 (note rollercoaster rear sight) Kar 98 The flatter rear sight type can be seen here (this is a Chilean Mauser) compare with the third image down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 November , 2015 Share Posted 1 November , 2015 Illuminating! Thanks 4G for putting all of those together for the benefit of me and - I suspect - many others! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 1 November , 2015 Share Posted 1 November , 2015 If one wanted a live example even as a collectable only you still need the expense of buying and fitting a cabinet that meets standards and the cost of a licence. I pondered this option when buying my Lebel. In addition you cannot display it in the house. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flers1916 Posted 1 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 1 November , 2015 Thank 4thGordons this is a huge help, and thank you all for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerhunter Posted 1 November , 2015 Share Posted 1 November , 2015 If one wanted a live example even as a collectable only you still need the expense of buying and fitting a cabinet that meets standards and the cost of a licence. I pondered this option when buying my Lebel. In addition you cannot display it in the house. TT All true but the cost of the cabinet can often be offset against the cost of a live rifle vs. a deact. Plus one is not helping to destroy our heritage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 1 November , 2015 Share Posted 1 November , 2015 Hmmmm. Yes best not de aced but destroying heritage????? Will disagee but our lovely govt seems hell bent on destroying both deacs and live! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 2 November , 2015 Share Posted 2 November , 2015 The current level of deactivation virtually destroys every component of a firearm. Given that any firearm so treated can never be repaired or replaced it is lost to history. In the case of the Gew 98 millions were destroyed at the War's end. No official scheme existed in the U.K. as it did in the USA of returning examples of these weapons to the homeland. The G.98s found in this country (U.K.) are by and large souvenirs of the battlefields brought back by individual soldiers. Many of them have already been destroyed and many have suffered deactivation. It is not difficult for a person to become a member of a shooting club and acquire a FAC given a little patience and one can really enjoy owning and shooting these veterans and an investment in a decent cabinet will prove worthwhile, knowing you are also preserving a true veteran of the GW. Alas, there isn't much we can now do about the current restrictions on handguns so de-activation is a reasonable alternative in practice. (Yes, yes, I know about Section 7 of the Fireams Act which only offers the choice of keeping it locked up at home w/out ammunition or keeping it locked up at an approved storage facility miles away. But there are many hoops to jump thro' for either.) SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 2 November , 2015 Share Posted 2 November , 2015 Yes, the figures for what was destroyed after November 1918 are staggering so please don't add unnecessarily to the total... By 1st October 1921 5,865,350 million rifles and carbines were destroyed on the orders of the Interallied Military Commission... The Reichswehr were allowed 84,000 rifles and 18,000 carbines only, and as I understand it, then along with those issued to police forces, etc., this meant that the absolute total of rifles and carbines in Germany and Austria that escaped the attention of the "Reichstreuhandgesellscahft AG" was around 200,000... There were also some 112,032 rifles and 17,440 carbines in Poland and Holland(!) that escaped destruction, along with about 250,000 mixed types that were in the hands of official militias (in Bavaria and Saxony)... Taking into account what has happened in the near century since 1921, anything available now in working order represents a rare survivor.... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 2 November , 2015 Share Posted 2 November , 2015 But if you don't want to shoot and don't want to strip down a deac is still a good option and preserves history. To look at a deac rifle you would not know till you checked firing pin and chamber etc. Unless you buy a live one and get it deaced a deac already done is hassle free and as cheap. Of course I would rather a live one but will the govt confiscate in the future??? Who knows. I did really consider the lebel as a live firer and wish I could have gone down that route but not for me. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerhunter Posted 2 November , 2015 Share Posted 2 November , 2015 I agree that the hoops to jump through for Section 7 are many and varied and the route can be tortuous but it can be done. It took us about ten years post-1997 to start getting new entrants but more are joining. Section 1 on the other hand presents no real problems. As to future confiscation. The government got away with it once after the 1988 Firearms Act by offering derisory compensation for SLRs. This did not happen post-1997. The shooting community sold the SLR owners down the river in 1988. In 1997 we stuck together and made it plain that if there was repeat of this the government would find itself in the European Court of Human Rights and so they paid up. The Great British public have never been told exactly how much this ill-conceived and ill-thought-out piece of legislation cost them but it is number well to the north of half a billion quid! (Not including police time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 3 November , 2015 Share Posted 3 November , 2015 Beer hunter you and I agree. Shame about the beureacrats!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 3 November , 2015 Share Posted 3 November , 2015 Having just purchased a virtually unfired attic find G98, I must agree that they need preservation not castration. I hate to see these pieces of history ruined. During both the last amnesty and weapon hand in's I am proud that I managed to preserve any number of good examples of different firearms and also several very rare ones ( An Erfurt Luger Serial No 000001 went to the Pattern Room). Fortunately within the job we had a group of people who knew what they were looking at and could tag and save for organisations like IWM, the Pattern Room, Warminster and Shrivenham. Not much but anything is better than nothing and the feeling that you've saved even a little is great. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 3 November , 2015 Share Posted 3 November , 2015 Rod well done. Again I do not disagree. But consider this. If no deacs even more would be scrapped and lost forever. As I have stated a FAC route wasn't for me and perhaps many like me. My G98 is deac. I bought it like that from a chap who got it from the soldier who souvenired it ages ago. He had it deaced. It is a 1906 example, has a canvas ersatz type sling, carved into butt is a date and Lone Tree Loos. A unit disk is present still. Alas the vet laquered the woodwork and has usual paint specs. Most of the white dots and it wasn't too bad I have got off but will leave the laquer. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 3 November , 2015 Share Posted 3 November , 2015 I do not wish to see this forum become a political arena, but it does appear that the Home Office and Police are constantly attempting to push back the frontiers of private ownership of firearms, a trend which should be resisted if we are to preserve historic pieces for future generations. For example I know of no long weapons in an obsolete calibre which have been used in crime. A very few cases (two?) of conversion of obsolete pistols are claimed but hardly on any scale which would represent a threat to the public. Never the less it seems these will be under attack by the authorities soon. Like Rod, I too have caused firearms to be preserved rather than destroyed. How about a cased Purdey double barrelled express rifle which was heading for the scrap bin? - Enough said. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flers1916 Posted 3 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 November , 2015 Well thank you people - a lot of interesting views - but getting back to my question - thanks again 4thGordons for your helpful on topic advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 3 November , 2015 Share Posted 3 November , 2015 Well, getting back to your question - it depends upon which campaign you are most interested in. If you are looking at the Somme then you need a G.98 with walnut stocks, and chamber date no later than 1915. For the later battles then perhaps you can look at beech stocks with finger grooves and chamber dates from 1916. Later still is the hollow rivet thro' the butt which would be common in '17 and 1918. But there are many combinations of these points. Of course 1914 battles would all have pre-war chamber dates. I am not speaking of the dates of introduction but of the date when they appeared in most photographs. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flers1916 Posted 4 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 4 November , 2015 Thank you Sommewalker - very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 Sorry to keep you' This is the Closer look of the Rifle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 Nice looking rifle, how does it shoot? Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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