Can you help with information on this young soldier

[alantaylor2004@hotmail.com]

I have found the link to the Mills, the address and the Bailey family. I have laid out a family tree on "ancestry.com" for all to see if you are so desired.

Vera Ada Louise Mills living at 127 Woodarde Road also married a Bailey in 1936.

[MBrockway]

I have found the link to the Mills, the address and the Bailey family. I have laid out a family tree on "ancestry.com" for all to see if you are so desired.

Vera Ada Louise Mills living at 127 Woodarde Road also married a Bailey in 1936.

Could you by any chance post at least a summary here? We don't all have Ancestry access and I'd love to keep my KRRC database all up-to-date.

Cheers,

Mark

[alantaylor2004@hotmail.com]

Hi again,

I have done a screen print of the tree, the problem I have found is that I had to reduce it to fit on one page then reduce it to be able to upload it onto this site.

Does this help.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for their contribution I can see that you all seem to have the same passion that I have. I'm certainly not well up in this field but it has been a pleasure to associate with you.

If there is any more information out there it will be great but if not, all the very best.

Alan

[KevinBattle]

It's only the last 4 images that hint at a second name starting to appear.

You might need a strong light and magnifying glass to even try and decipher and even then might just be the photographic studio proprietor but perhaps worth one more try?

[Blackblue]

One of the 2 x tree owners on Ancestry has got back to me. She is planning to have a look at the thread.

Albert's mother was Ada Emmeline Mills. Ada's brother was George Alfred Mills and his wife was Louise Elizabeth Bowmer.

Louise and her mother are recorded as living at 127 Woodwarde post war. Earliest I can see is 1924. Louise's two children not present, but appear to move in later on.

TD

[JMB1943]

Drew,

You have done some very nice enhancements there, and a definitive signature would nail the identification, so I have a couple of questions,

1) what software did you use , or did you re-photograph with different color filters ?

2) earlier in the thread, there was a mention that the color of the cord boss would provide a clue as to the regiment. When black/white photos are digitally colorized, are some known colors (e.g. brown Sam Browne, khaki jacket) entered manually and the other colors then are generated automatically ?

Regards,

JMB

[FROGSMILE]

I hope that something can be passed to his school and also that a copy of his portrait photo can he added to his military record. Also the National project at the Imperial War Museum.

[Drew-1918]

JMB,

Thanks for your comments. However, I must confess that my method was very primitive. I merely copied the photo into Power Point and then played around with the colour, light and contrast. I am sure there are members on here who would be able to do much better in Photoshop, or other similar software.

As the two 'signatures' seem to be different, and as they seem quite small, I cannot help but wonder if they are not merely the photographic studio proprietor, as Kevin suggested might be the case.

I am really out of my depth with regards to colours and orthochromatic film. There was a really good thread on medal ribbons which included some discussion of colour in old photos. Have you seen it? Medal Ribbon Photos

To me, the cord boss looks like it might be 'red'(dark) in one of the photos and blue-green (lighter) in another. But I don't think this definition of the colour difference is definitive, and in addition, I think it can also depend on the brand of film used and how it was developed etc. In other words, it might be very difficult to tell with any degree of assurance. But perhaps I shouldn't comment any further, as I really don't have enough experience!

As an aside, are we sure that London Regiments affiliated with the KRRC used the strung bugle on the cord boss? It is just that I recently saw a 9th Londons cord boss with the more typical 9th Londons 'George & the Dragon' emblem on ebay. I only raise the question as it might further narrow it down to the KRRC.

[MBrockway]

As an aside, are we sure that London Regiments affiliated with the KRRC used the strung bugle on the cord boss? It is just that I recently saw a 9th Londons cord boss with the more typical 9th Londons 'George & the Dragon' emblem on ebay. I only raise the question as it might further narrow it down to the KRRC.

IMG_3051.JPG

I would be very surprised if all the rifles-related London battalions used the plain strung bugle.

I would expect them to follow a similar pattern to the way they vary the design inside the circlet of their KRR and RB OR cap badges - e.g. QVRs using St George and the dragon, QWR using a portcullis etc. etc.

Those London battalions that kept the strung bugle inside the circlet probably also used the strung bugle on any officers' corded boss badge - 21/Londons (First Surrey Rifles) definitely did (see above) and I would predict The Rangers and Finsbury Rifles may have followed suit.

I am only hypothesising here mind - don't take my thoughts as hard evidence for this!

I don't think there is a standard reference work on officers' corded boss cap badges on the SD Cap. Certainly Kipling & King don't cover them well. The only work I'm aware of was a series of articles by Irv Mortensen in the journal Crown Imperial, but these are now quite hard to find.

Any Pals know of another reference work covering corded boss badges?

[Drew-1918]

Most interesting! Thank you very much.

Chris

[alantaylor2004@hotmail.com]

Hi again,

I have another question for Mark. My great uncle was in the 16th Battalion of the KRRC Edward Thomas Dapling and he was killed at Arras I have my own family tree and he is on it with much information that I have found.

My tree on Ancestry is The Taylor Tree and you should be able to search for him or even me "Alan Mervyn Taylor" and my wife Mary Christine Alice Riordan in the tree. You will also see that I have traced the Daplings back to the 14 century.

Once again,

All the best,

Alan

[MBrockway]

Hi again,

I have another question for Mark. My great uncle was in the 16th Battalion of the KRRC Edward Thomas Dapling and he was killed at Arras I have my own family tree and he is on it with much information that I have found.

My tree on Ancestry is The Taylor Tree and you should be able to search for him or even me "Alan Mervyn Taylor" and my wife Mary Christine Alice Riordan in the tree. You will also see that I have traced the Daplings back to the 14 century.

Once again,

All the best,

Alan

Unfortunately I do not currently have Ancestry access

What would you like to know about Edward Dapling?

[Blackblue]

What's the question Alan?

[MBrockway]

Hi again,

I have done a screen print of the tree, the problem I have found is that I had to reduce it to fit on one page then reduce it to be able to upload it onto this site.

Does this help.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for their contribution I can see that you all seem to have the same passion that I have. I'm certainly not well up in this field but it has been a pleasure to associate with you.

If there is any more information out there it will be great but if not, all the very best.

Alan

Alan has sent me screenshots but as Word documents. However I've managed to cobble together the key sections that show how 2/Lt Alfred BAILEY and Mrs Louise Elizabeth MILLS (nee BOWMER) of 127 Woodwarde Road are related (she is wife of Alfred's mother's older brother) ...

line above connects to

Many intermediate Mills uncles and aunts omitted due to lack of width.

NB A feature of Ancestry family trees is that they do not automatically sequence offspring L-R by date of birth. Alfred's mother Ada is not the eldest of her siblings.

[FROGSMILE]

This is all good stuff but is anyone sending this information to the institutions that really count, such as the CWWGC, Imperial War Museum, and his school? If not someone else will be doing the same research in 10-years time.

[Blackblue]

Agreed,

Alan's photo....so his choice I would say.

Tim D

[MBrockway]

Are we all now 100% happy that we have identified the photograph as being 2/Lt Alfred J BAILEY, 17/KRRC?

The case seems pretty strong to me certainly, but it's worth checking we have a consensus across all the Pals.

Tim's probably right too - Alan's photo, so Alan should approach the school, authorities etc.

Good piece of work Chaps!

[FROGSMILE]

Are we all now 100% happy that we have identified the photograph as being 2/Lt Alfred J BAILEY, 17/KRRC?

The case seems pretty strong to me certainly, but it's worth checking we have a consensus across all the Pals.

Tim's probably right too - Alan's photo, so Alan should approach the school, authorities etc.

Good piece of work Chaps!

I think that Tim has done a brilliant job in tracking down the identity of the officer in the photo as 2nd Lt Alfred J Bailey KRRC, yes.

I know that it is Alan's photo and his choice, I was / am merely trying to elicit the courtesy of a reply. Nothing more.

[MBrockway]

I think that Tim has done a brilliant job in tracking down the identity of the officer in the photo as 2nd Lt Alfred J Bailey KRRC, yes.

I know that it is Alan's photo and his choice, I was / am merely trying to elicit the courtesy of a reply. Nothing more.

I'm with you - it would be a crying shame for a copy of Bailey's photo not to be reunited with his records.

[Blackblue]

Thanks guys,

Pretty simple with trees on Ancestry! I think Alan should approach the school. I'm sure they will be over the moon.

Rgds

TD

[MBrockway]

What's the question Alan?

I've been in touch with Alan off the board and he confirms he has everything he needs on Rfn Dapling, 16/KRRC. Not sure what the question for me was!

Mark

[alantaylor2004@hotmail.com]

Hi again,

I have sent and email to the school and will come back with any information that they supply.

Regards,

Alan

Alfred John Bailey School.docx

[alantaylor2004@hotmail.com]

I should ask if you are all O.K with the information that you have all given to be handed over to the school and CWGC. If I don't receive anything to the contrary and will do a copy and paste, that's if they ask for it?

[clk]

Hi Alan,

Many thanks for sharing your £2 purchase - excellent value! It's been absolutely fascinating following this thread, and seeing how things have unfolded, whilst at the same time being very frustrating - I've spent a good couple of hours starring at, and manipulating the image of the handwriting on the photo in the hope of being able to decipher it, and add extra weight to it being Alfred - no success though.

With the electoral registers indicating that other people were resident in 127 Woodwarde Road until the early 1920's , and what seems to be a death record for her husband indicating they were living in Clacton in 1922, it seems that if Seajane is correct in her post #2, and they are mounting instructions on the back of the photo, Elizabeth probably didn't have the photo framed until at least 6 years after Alfred had died.

Regards

Chris

[FROGSMILE]

I should ask if you are all O.K with the information that you have all given to be handed over to the school and CWGC. If I don't receive anything to the contrary and will do a copy and paste, that's if they ask for it?

Brilliant stuff Alan, I think it will be great to pass the details and a copy of the photo on. Please don't forget the Imperial War Museum also, it has a Nationwide initiative to try and get a photo of every man who served. The initiative is being supported by this forum and you will find the details via the home pages.