Lancashire Fusilier Posted 26 July , 2015 Share Posted 26 July , 2015 LF, Steves bayonet looks to have a raised muzzle ring on my phone screen, so I reckon that the P1853 2nd pattern is certainly a contender as it has a raised muzzle ring, so does S/Ss P1858 & whitworth (whitworth being the easiest to identify via the round slot). I am away from my bayonets right now but nearly sure the P1853 has a slightly lower muzzle ring & longer mortise slot than the P1858, cant remember how the leaf springs on each were attatched but I am sure you will be correct. Aleck Aleck, What do you think ? Based on Steve's new photos, the key is the cut of the Mortise Slot, with I think there only being 2 models with this type of Mortise Slot, the Pattern 1853 Artillery, 2nd Model and the Pattern 1856 Sword Bayonet both having that distinctive very long Mortice Slot which extends past the top of the leather grip slab. Their other features match, being Bar on Barrel types, and their Locking Bolt Leaf Spring, secured to the grip with a screw, rather than a rivet, and it has the curved ' Yataghan ' blade The other key factor is Steve's bayonet's scabbard, which is leather, this rules out the Pattern 1853 Artillery, 2nd Model, which had a steel scabbard, leaving only the Pattern 1856 Sword Bayonet with all the matching features. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 26 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2015 Thanks very much LF, I'm pleased the new photos have enabled an identification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 26 July , 2015 Share Posted 26 July , 2015 Thanks very much LF, I'm pleased the new photos have enabled an identification. Steve, I am pleased that you now know your bayonet's type, which is a British 1856 Sword Bayonet. Ian Skennerton & Robert Richardson co-authored an excellent book " British & Commonwealth Bayonets ", which is acknowledged as one of the best reference works on British bayonets. On page 118 of their book, they kindly set out comparisons of various bayonets from the mid-1800s so as to aid their identification, and as you can see from their photographic comparisons of the various Mortise Slots ( top photograph ) only example No.1 ( far left ), which is the Mortise Slot for either the Pattern 1853 Artillery, 2nd Model ( which was my first guess before I saw your bayonet's leather scabbard ) and the Pattern 1856 Sword Bayonet, have that enlongated Mortise Slot which extends past the top of the leather grip slabs, as in your photographs. So without taking your bayonet's scabbard into account, your original photograph could either have been of a Pattern 1853 Artillery, 2nd Model or a Pattern 1856 Sword Bayonet. However, your second set of photographs show your bayonet to have a leather scabbard, which rules out the Pattern 1853, 2nd Model, which had a steel scabbard, leaving only the Pattern 1856 Sword Bayonet with all the features which match your second set of photographs. So you have :- A British Pattern 1856 Sword Bayonet, with what should be a 22.8 inch curved ' Yataghan ' blade, your bayonet and scabbard's overall length should be 28.2 inches ( which may be different if the scabbard leather has shrunk over time ), the Leaf Spring is secured by a screw , the Muzzle Ring is the ' Bar on Barrel ' type and should have a dia. of 20.9 mm., the leather scabbard should have a sheet steel Locket & Chape. Attached are the comparison photographs c/o " British & Commonwealth Bayonets " which show your bayonet, far left and marked with the arrow. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 27 July , 2015 Share Posted 27 July , 2015 LF, certainly looks like P1856 as it has the correct mortise slot & slightly lower muzzle ring than the P1858 & whitworth but think the clincher is the leather scabbard & screw securing the leaf spring. The new pics have really helped in identifying this model, well done sir, I tip my hat to you Aleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 27 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 27 July , 2015 Thanks to you both, I forgot to post the measurements but can confirm that they match exactly those detailed by LF, a positive identification ! Regards, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 27 July , 2015 Share Posted 27 July , 2015 LF, certainly looks like P1856 as it has the correct mortise slot & slightly lower muzzle ring than the P1858 & whitworth but think the clincher is the leather scabbard & screw securing the leaf spring. The new pics have really helped in identifying this model, well done sir, I tip my hat to you Aleck Aleck, Many thanks. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 27 July , 2015 Share Posted 27 July , 2015 Thanks to you both, I forgot to post the measurements but can confirm that they match exactly those detailed by LF, a positive identification ! Regards, Steve Steve, Thank you for the confirmation, I am pleased to know that everything matches. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 27 July , 2015 Share Posted 27 July , 2015 Good detection work, you experts, and as a matter of interest, what did it make at the auction? Cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 27 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 27 July , 2015 Hi Martin, It was sold in a lot with a 1796 pattern British infantry officer's sword (no scabbard). The lot sold for £290 (£325 including commission). Cheers, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 The new pics have really helped in identifying this model, well done sir, I tip my hat to you I forgot to post the measurements but can confirm that they match exactly those detailed by LF, a positive identification ! Yes, well done LF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 Yes, well done LF! Trajan, Many thanks, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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