Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Sign in to follow this  
geraint

Irish Language recruitment

Recommended Posts

geraint

Thanks to you all for your comments. A very illuminative thread and if any materials are discovered - a note here would be well appreciated. :thumbsup:

Geraint

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dublin3

Early in the War the Irish Industrial Development Association condemned the fact that recruitment posters used in Ireland were produced in England. Presumable this meant they were standard posters with little direct reference to Ireland although it could mean that they were just not printed in Ireland. In November 1915 Captain Robert Cedric Kelly, an organizer with the Ministry of Munitions was appointed as head of recruiting n Ireland. Initially he doubled recruiting figures by setting up local voluntary management committees. As most of these were either local politicians and businessmen I think it unlikely that they would have ventured into the Irish language.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Uncle George

This thread may not be the best place for this, but I hope people find it interesting:

" ... a recently acquired archive is giving new insight into old dialects - some of which no longer exist. Recorded in a WWI prisoner of war camp on shellac disks, the archive was part of an effort by German linguists to study regional variation in the English language. A report by PRI's The World includes a brief synopsis - and a powerful rendition of a beloved Scottish ballad by a homesick soldier.

Nae mair will our bonnie callants

Merch tae war whan our braggarts crousely craw

Nor wee weans frae pitheid an clachan

Murn the ships sailin doun the Broomielaw

Broken faimilies in launs we've hairriet

Will curse 'Scotlan the Brave' nae mair, nae mair

Black an white ane-til-ither mairriet

Mak the vile barracks o thair maisters bare

Sae come aa ye at hame wi freedom..."

http://www.metafilter.com/86565/Voices-from-WWI-speak-again-in-British-Library

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KGB

This thread may not be the best place for this, but I hope people find it interesting:

" ... a recently acquired archive is giving new insight into old dialects - some of which no longer exist. Recorded in a WWI prisoner of war camp on shellac disks, the archive was part of an effort by German linguists to study regional variation in the English language. A report by PRI's The World includes a brief synopsis - and a powerful rendition of a beloved Scottish ballad by a homesick soldier.

Nae mair will our bonnie callants

Merch tae war whan our braggarts crousely craw

Nor wee weans frae pitheid an clachan

Murn the ships sailin doun the Broomielaw

Broken faimilies in launs we've hairriet

Will curse 'Scotlan the Brave' nae mair, nae mair

Black an white ane-til-ither mairriet

Mak the vile barracks o thair maisters bare

Sae come aa ye at hame wi freedom..."

http://www.metafilter.com/86565/Voices-from-WWI-speak-again-in-British-Library

Speak English with a Ballymena accent and qualify for a new language, Ulster Scots. Lallans and Ullans are interesting for linguists though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
clive_hughes

Thanks all for your extremely informative comments folks. So was there any evidence of the Goidelic and Gaelic languages used for recruitment purposes in both Ireland and Scotland?

Ron - thanks for the poster! I haven't seen that one "Independence (Freedom) calls on it's bravest men" Or "There's ten bob in it if you hit that Range Rover Dai - the one with the Geiriadur Mawr on the passenger seat." Ask Siege Gunner! He'll explain! :thumbsup:

Jumping back to post #26, it took me till recently to realise that the slightly curious Welsh words on this poster are actually 2 lines from the Welsh version of "Men of Harlech" (just imagine Ivor Emmanuel warbling at the Zulus, and hum the last 2 lines of the song!).

...Meanwhile, is there any evidence for Scots Gaelic's use in recruitment?

Clive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Uncle George

A 2008 Forum discussion about Gaelic speakers is here:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Jumping back to post #26, it took me till recently to realise that the slightly curious Welsh words on this poster are actually 2 lines from the Welsh version of "Men of Harlech" (just imagine Ivor Emmanuel warbling at the Zulus, and hum the last 2 lines of the song!).

...Meanwhile, is there any evidence for Scots Gaelic's use in recruitment?

Clive

Well spotted Clive!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KGB

Run rig mor nan Gael, the lowlanders great hatred for Gaelic. The Welsh noose (tied around kids necks for speaking ym gymraig in the playground?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scalyback

Run rig mor nan Gael, the lowlanders great hatred for Gaelic. The Welsh noose (tied around kids necks for speaking ym gymraig in the playground?

Welsh not. May of been associated with a noose around the neck but the "not" is a mainly a device used with in the primary school system at the time, secondary education being in English.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Not heard of a noose. The "Welsh Not " was usually a strip of wood about the size of a ruler and had the words inscribed on it. It had a string knotted at both ends and looped over the wearer's head. It was worn like WW2 evacuees carried their gasmask box around their necks.

When a child was heard speaking Welsh, he was given the WN to wear, and had to wear it until the next child was heard speaking Welsh, when the next child then took over the wearing of the WN. And there was probably a beating involved somewhere, there usually was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scalyback

There is a Welsh not in the school at St Fagans, museum of Welsh life.

I remember a documentary on S4C about the loss of Welsh language during the great war due to troops mixing with English speakers(I may of mentioned on this thread) have you seen or heard of it Dai?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

There is a Welsh not in the school at St Fagans, museum of Welsh life.

Lots of images here:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=saint+fagans+welsh+not&biw=1920&bih=923&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI_fiXi_ObxwIVQgbbCh1SoQPa#tbm=isch&q=welsh+not

I remember a documentary on S4C about the loss of Welsh language during the great war due to troops mixing with English speakers(I may of mentioned on this thread) have you seen or heard of it Dai?

Can't say I recall a specific documentary on that issue, but it did have a detrimental effect on the language for the next 5 decades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
geraint

I've re-read this thread, and am resurrecting it and hoping that perhaps a little more information has become available over the last three years.

My grandmother, who died 7 years ago at the age of 103, attended primary school where the Welsh Not was used on a daily basis; predominately amongst the boys. She had no recollection of a girl ever being caned. The boys also knew the score - ensuring that the same three boys ended up with the Not around their necks by 3.29. for those of you unsure as to what the Not was - whoever had it around their necks at the end of the school day 3.30, was publicly whipped.

 

Anyhow - comments on Scots, Welsh, Irish language recruitment are welcome!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don

 

 

 

 

large_000000.jpg

 

 

The poster above has a tiny bit of Gaeilge  in the top left hand corner "ERIN GO BRAGH"

Translated  "Ireland until eternity" or "Ireland until the end (of time)."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...