Can't find date of birth

[rustygirl54]

1879 birth for John R on 1881 census - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQ6M-231

Craig

Not the right one. Thanks Craig.

[rustygirl54]

And taking the service record at face value he claims to be 19 Years & 5 Months old on 9/11/1899 which makes him born June 1880 and there is only one Liverpool GRO for such a man. Ancestry Link

Then there are 4 Agneses born in the same reg district 1880+/- 5 years. 1 can be discounted as being 3rd Q 1880.

8 Agneses if you expand it to +/- 10 years.

Find the Agneses on 1881 and later censuses and eliminate them if the father is not John and see who you are left with.

Or just buy the certificate!! for John Williams above.

TEW

TEW have all 4 Agneses in my records none with father John or brother John.

[rustygirl54]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to help sorry if I've not reply to you all.

[TEW]

Rusty,

A few things to point out.

The John R Williams. B1879 with sister Alice that you suggest may have actually been Agnes is the same man you discount in post #26.

I don't think Alice is Agnes or that she died pre 1901. The entries in his service record span 1899 to 1924, I'm not sure when the Agnes as NOK was added. Presumably before he married and maybe after his last parent died, although if he fell out with his parents that would change things.

The John Williams in Winchester Barracks is pretty unlikely as he would actually only be between 10 and 12 years old and pretending to be 19.

You mention you have records on the 4 Agneses and the right Agnes is not amongst them. Try expanding the search to include the 8 Agneses born +/-10yrs from 1880.

I'm guessing that the engine driver reference for his father is taken from his marriage cert in 1915?? It doesn't automatically follow that the father was an engine driver in 1880 when John was born so discounting possibles on the basis their father doesn't have the right occupation on a birth certificate may lead you astray.

I don't really know the criteria for soldiers having their families in barracks with them . Annie is listed as wife but we know she wasn't married. Did they tell a few fibs to get accommodation? Perhaps someone else will know how 'married quarters' operated.

TEW

[rustygirl54]

TEW

The John R Williams in post 26 is living at 15 Prince Edwin St. Everton. on 1881 census

The John R Williams with sister Alice that I refer to is living at 453 Scotland Rd on the 1881 census

Both have fathers named John both engine drivers.

Now I'm starting to go crazy as the John I have living at 453 Scotland Rd Is actually John J not JOHN R at all !!! I have the wrong baptism entry on Ancestry, I have the Baptism entry for John R Williams in post 26

So it looks likes I now have two John Williams,,,, John J born abt 1878 and John R born abt 1878/9

Still looking for Ages.

I agree with you about Alice being Agnes and private John Williams 10/12 years pretending to be 19 on the 1891.......... It was desperate thinking!!!

yes the engine driver is from the marriage cert. yes he could have had another occupation but I have nothing else to go on.

I expect they did tell a few little lies back then, made life easier for them.

[rustygirl54]

Not the right one. Thanks Craig.

Sorry Craig for dismissing this one I've made a mistake, on taking another look it could be a possitive, having trouble finding the family on other census.

Thanks