Frank Bottomley

[jl1954]

Frank Bottomley is named on the Holmbridge and Holme Valley war memorials.

I am pretty sure that the Frank Bottomley referred to is:

B 1889 in Upperthong

father: ben

mother: Elizabeth

married Rhoda Dawson Moorhouse.

He is not listed on the CWGS website. However, there is, on the Medal Index cards, a Frank Bottomley who was in the Royal Field Artillery, service numbers, 631735 and 158748 who is listed as dying in January 1920. This ties in with a Frank Bottomley listed on the BMD records as dying in Jan-Mar 1920 in Huddersfield.

I can't find a burial record for this person.

Woul anyone know if this is the same Frank Bottomley?

[Glen]

631735 F Bottomley left a widow (Rhoda) if that helps, but is listed (on the register of soldiers effects) as dying in York on 28.1.20

[BillyH]

He is not listed on the CWGC website.

You may be correct, but I reckon there are 8 possibles on CWGC (F. Bottomley, Frank Bottomley, or Francis Bottomley)

So if you aren't sure who he is then how can you be certain that he ISN'T on CWGC?

The answer will probably be found in the local newspapers, and check for a funeral report or death notice for the first few months of 1920.

Your other option is buying the death certificate for your suspect to see if there is any mention of war wounds.

BillyH.

[BillyH]

631735 F Bottomley left a widow (Rhoda) if that helps, but is listed (on the register of soldiers effects) as dying in York on 28.1.20

1911 census has a 22 year old Frank Bottomley married to Rhoda and living at 174 Woodhead Road, Holmbridge.

Looks like it may be your man, my previous suggestion to look at the local newspaper for a funeral report looks worth a go, it may mention him having been wounded or discharged through bad health (TB?)

Could even be a case for In From the Cold?

BillyH.

(p.s. no sign of a Silver War Badge for him though?)

[Guest elea]

Frank Bottomley is mentioned 'Huddersfield's Roll of Honour 1914-1922' by J. Margaret Stansfield. It states that he returned home 05/01/1920, but unfortunately died 27/01/1920. He was buried by Hinchcliffe Mill Wesleyan Chapel in Netherthong. CWGC might not list all those buried on home soil.

I live near the chapel, so know that it fell into disuse a long time ago and is now houses, but don't know if the graves its cemetery are still present.

[AndrewC]

Sorry to be replying to succh an old thread, I am doing research into my great grandfather for my Australian relatives, yes you have the correct frank Bottomley 631735, he came back home on sick leave and died a few weeks later of Malaria, the graves are still there at the chapel, does anyone have any further information on him please?, thanx in advance.

[Michelle Young]

@jl1954 hasn’t visited the forum for 9 years. My tag might alert them to your post. 

[Matlock1418]

From Western Front Association / Fold3 have a pension index card.

Rhoda Dawson BOTTOMLEY, Old Road, Holmbridge, Yorks, claimed a pension in respect of Cpl. Frank BOTTOMLEY, 631735, Royal Field Artillery

M

Edit: for completeness so you and others are not left wondering ... apart from a case reference number of 11909 thare was no other info on this PIC and frustratingly I haven't [yet?] found any more at WFA/Fold3 [see below]

Edited 28 April by Matlock1418
edit then strike part

[AndrewC]

Thank you Michelle and Matlock, we've just been talking about the pension at home 10 shillings a week great grandma got, she made peg rugs on the side to make some living money.

Rhoda dawson bottomley :-

 

[Matlock1418]

@AndrewC  I'm happy to help

3 hours ago, AndrewC said:

But wondering the significance of this photo to a Corporal in the Royal Field Artillery ???

14 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

we've just been talking about the pension at home 10 shillings a week great grandma got

10/- pw = That's an unusual pension amount for a widow from1920 [1919 Royal Warrant would apply ... and the minimum for a Widow not over 40 years and without children eligible for an Allowance was 20/- pw or for a Widow over 40 or with children eligible for Allowance 26/8 pw for a Pte and 21/8 and 26/8 respectively for a Cpl]

Do you have this 10/- pw figure documented - would be interested to see such.

Did she remarry by any chance [so as to lose her own pension in favour of a one-off remarriage grant/bounty] but continue to get a 10/- pw allowance for her first child [up to age 16]??

M

Edited 28 April by Matlock1418
Cpl's widow rates

[AndrewC]

Hi Matlock, this is one of only two photos of great grandad we got passed down the family, (the other with him riding camels in front of the pyramids in cairo), I do not know what the unform is or which regiment it belongs to, up till yesterday we thought he was in the airforcee?, just rung my mum to check on the pension 10s a week is what she used to tell her but i don't have any documentation yet, she never remarried will have to do some further research on the pension thing though thank you very much for your input.

[Matlock1418]

27 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

Hi Matlock, this is one of only two photos of great grandad we got passed down the family, (the other with him riding camels in front of the pyramids in cairo), I do not know what the unform is or which regiment it belongs to, up till yesterday we thought he was in the airforcee?,

The uniform and side cap [and cap badge] look like RAF to me but seem of a later period than the GW - his son ?? [your grandad??]

M

Edited 28 April by Matlock1418

[AndrewC]

Ahh that is where the confusion surrounding this is airforce or army, yesterday in Oz the picture was shown to an ex army guy and he said it was an airforce uniform, the photo is frank bottomley my great grandad, they were given to my mum by her grandma Rhoda, this is turning into a big rabbit hole,

[Matlock1418]

Of course I have just put an edit to my post above .. and guess what??

Found this other PIC relating to his widow's pension claim [his number was mistranscribed at WFA/Fold3 - now corrected] - and the card has some interesting points which I will discuss below.

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

Form 104-76 received = Declaration made by the Widow of a Soldier in support of claim to pension for herself and children

There is clearly a reference to Articles 11 [widow's pension] and Article 12 [child(ren)'s allowance(s).

There is what looks like a £8 Grant -  as was usual this was relatively quickly awarded = a grant to cover urgent expenses arising from her husband's death - often/sometimes for mourning dress [though not worn much at that time post-war], sometimes for moving home [typically downsizing as she would no longer be expected to keep a home in the same level of comfort as her husband might have expected had he returned!] - commonly used for local newspaper death notice inserts [these quite often had a photo = so a good place to search, e.g at British Newspaper Archive or through Find my Past]

The maximum grant was £5 for widow and £1 per child [so it looks like three children provided for - you may know if this is a correct number of children]

Unfortunately the pension & allowances awarded are not made clear - but it would/should have been a lot more than 10/- pw

M

Edit: Just so you know under the 1919 RW [which continued to 1946!]: 2nd Child's allowance was 7/6 pw and for each child after the second was 6/- pw [up to age 16] - as each child reached 16 they dropped off the scale and the remainder stepped up a grade.  Last child could thus get 10/- pw - perhaps this is what was recalled??  We probably need to know the number of children in 1920.

Edited 28 April by Matlock1418
edit

[Michelle Young]

It’s definitely not a Great War era photo. 

[AndrewC]

Thanks guys, help appreciated, Having known great grandma and how she acted maybe she only said 10s as not to appear vulgar/well off as she was humble and VERY strict, that is what she said on numerous occasions, This is another photo of some family member who we have no idea who it is, is this the ww1 uniform and ive somehow got the picture mixed up?, thanks in advance for any help

[Matlock1418]

It's an artillery soldier [I can't quite read the shoulder title to say which branch] - leather ammo pouches and plaited cord shoulder lanyard [typically used for a clasp knife in left breast poscket], no NCO chevrons visible.

Probably a Driver I would think [Not my main field - I can't recall if Gunners also wore leather pouches??]

M

Edit: And Michelle has just pipped me.

Edited 28 April by Matlock1418
Edit

[Michelle Young]

Now that photo is a man in the Artillery. 

[AndrewC]

Wow I'm mindblown I think everyone in our family will be stumped as they have beeen looking at the wrong picture for years, I have no idea who the first picture I posted is then will have to start digging, thanks again.

[Michelle Young]

There looks to be a family resemblance. Did he have a son? 

[AndrewC]

Iv'e just spoken to my mum because Matlock did say is it my grandad, and with all the confusion around that picture I was wondering if it was my actual grandad who married one of the 3 daughters Frank and Rhoda had (Agnes, Elizabeth and Alice) all their 13 children were born at the end of WWII, I asked was he in WWII but he never spoke of it so it will remain a mystery if that is my grandad (though it does look like him) I have been sent a copy of rhoda and franks double wedding and 1 of the grooms does look like the "Artillary man", which is all starting to make sense now, thanks again for your input

[Matlock1418]

4 hours ago, AndrewC said:

I am doing research into my great grandfather for my Australian relatives, yes you have the correct frank Bottomley ,

4 hours ago, AndrewC said:

he came back home on sick leave and died a few weeks later of Malaria,

Firstly, Are you again talking about 631735? 

Have you got his Death Certificate? - easy at GRO Now only £2.50 for a Digital Image copy almost instantly [I think this is his = probably worth a peek]

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp 

As has been noted previously above he is not commemorated at CWGC [and so hopefully without raising any excess hopes] if you can find a military document which days he was discharged witth the condition that killed him then commemoration might be possible since he died before the cut-off of 31 Aug 1921

 

Secondly, and not wanting to cause false hope or a family ruckus ...

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

... from his Medal Index Card it rather looks like his BWM & VM medals were not formally issued or claimed and were later sent for disposal [i.e. destruction] = So can still be claimed, 100+ years later!

= What would be really useful would be to next see the Medal Roll from which this MIC was created [sorry I can't access] - should be available from Ancestry if you have access [or can get access through a UK public library]

Member @TEW may be able to please assist and interpret the reference on this MIC [and likely the MR]

Closest proven descendant who could/would be a good custodian [and then carefully pass on to another responsible person/generation] might perhaps like to apply https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility#world-war-1-medals - don't be put off by the suggestion that "return" was/is necessary - so long as not recorded as successfully issued then ...

I hope not false hope or any squabbling!!! ... Nicely now!!!

M

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

There is what looks like a £8 Grant ... ... ...

The maximum grant was £5 for widow and £1 per child [so it looks like three children provided for - you may know if this is a correct number of children]

32 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

3 daughters Frank and Rhoda had (Agnes, Elizabeth and Alice)

That would rather seem to match the PIC I posted earlier ... suggesting three children.

M

Edited 28 April by Matlock1418
tweak

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, AndrewC said:

him riding camels in front of the pyramids in cairo),

That could be WW2 - though you could post here as a first test.

If so ... try WW2Talk https://ww2talk.com/index.php 

M

Edited 28 April by Matlock1418
add

[AndrewC]

Thanks Matlock for all your time, my Uncle in Oz was named Frank after him and nobody in the family has seen any medals and didn't think there were any, I have downloaded the medal rolls (but its like ancient greek to me) have attached the medal roll

WO-372-2-224844.pdf