Hackney Gurkhas - Lemnos - Cairo?

[Timble]

Thanks for all your help....I've got plenty to be going on with (trying to find any further information on medals etc from family members). I have got a couple of queries in my head that some of you may or may not be able to help me with:

a) I was told James Victor Martin was shot in the knee with a dum-dum bullet. I didn't realise that these were orginally manufactured by a British Company and that they were supposed to be banned at the turn of the Century. Would the fact that his leg was relatively in tact and he was able to make it to Cairo support this claim that it possibly was a soft nosed bullet? My thinking is that the bullet nose spreading when it hit his patella would take some of the penetrative force away - resulting in more lateral damage? Would someone shot in the knee with a normal round get more penatrative damage in the actual bone and joint behind the patella? I have seen a few claims and unofficial remarks that they may have been used by both sides. BTW: Isn't it strange that this was seen a terrible un-gentlemanly thing to use and that if caught doing so you could be shot, and yet it was still ok to gas people- it seems to have turned around completely now with some of the bullets in use.

b,) He said he was ordered to look after the camels...has anyone ever seen any reference to infantry units or the 1/10th London using camels at this time and place? Just wondered

Steve, thanks for filling in that missing part of the famly history and the info about camping on a Malaria infected mosquito infested area....apparently my Grandad used to try and pick the roses in the pattern of the wall paper when he was having a bout - there must have been thousands came back with it

Also looking at the uniform picture he signs it onthe front as Jim - which may have been his nickname at that time. i'll try and get the picture enlarged, but can't see much more through a magnifying glass.

It would be nice if I can put something together (a history) before the anniversay of the landings.

cheers

Tim

[Timble]

I've just heard back from my Uncle and here is a picture of a medal and his cap badge, apparently there were two other medals, but they have gone missing. The story I have been told is that he joined the TA first and was able to enlist a year younger than he should have. He was 330 PTE J Martin.

Cheers

Tim

[Stebie9173]

Ok, so that is fairly unambiguous!

No. 330 (later 400123) it is then!

I suppose the first thing to do is address dates of enlistment then. Firstly, his age - there is a Birth Registration page from parish records for James Victor Martin, born 12 February 1897, son of James Martin (dried fruit salesman) and Alice Maud Mary Martin of 22 De Beauvoir Square, Dalston baptised at St Marks Dalston on 8 October 1898.

Which sets us with dates and ages of:

1901 Census - age 4 years & 1 month

1911 Census - age 14 years and 1 month

1914 August - age 17 years and 6 months

1915 August - age 18 years and 6 months (minimum age for overseas service should have been 19)

1919 February - age 22

Looking at enlistment dates of other men gives us a reasonably tight set of enlistment dates:

131 & 420051 Alftred Arthur Whiter - 26 Jul 1912

195 (est) & 420076 William Joseph Williams - 26 Jul 192

198 & 420078 George Foxwell - 16 Sep 1912

256 & 420096 William Foster - 14 Oct 1912 (suffered from malaria in Oct 1916 & Dec 1917)

??? & 420132 S Sanders - 11 Nov 1912

361 & 420135 Thomas White - 6 Sep 1912

559 & 420197 Henry Smith - 5 Feb 1913

600 (est) & 420209 Victor Edwin Northcott - 16 Feb 1913

So, he possibly enlisted in October/November 1912 when he would have been 15 and a half years old... He should have been at least 17 so probably popped eighteen months or two years onto his age when enlisting in 1912. This would have made him "officially" "19" in 1914 and "20" in 1915.

Steve.

[stiletto_33853]

Tim,

As it would seem beyond doubt given those cap badges and the work Steve and others have done for you, that he was indeed 1/10th Londons there is a book called "Khaki and Rifle Green" by Lord Dunally, although he did not receive this title until 1927. He was Adjutant and later commanded the 1/10th Londons although a Rifle Brigade officer called Hon. Henry Cornelius O'Callaghan Prittie. The book is excellent regarding this battalion, it's training, recruitment, active service and stories. Although he was wounded shortly after landing at Suvla (15/8/15) and returned home going back to The Rifle Brigade Depot it would give you an insight into the battalion and I must admit it's hilarious with some of the stories whilst with 1/10th Londons and The Rifle Brigade, got to love someone or a Regiment that can make fun of themselves.

Unfortunately, unless this book is online available to download for free??? it is not cheap to get hold of these days.

Andy

[Timble]

Tim,

As it would seem beyond doubt given those cap badges and the work Steve and others have done for you, that he was indeed 1/10th Londons there is a book called "Khaki and Rifle Green" by Lord Dunally, although he did not receive this title until 1927. He was Adjutant and later commanded the 1/10th Londons although a Rifle Brigade officer called Hon. Henry Cornelius O'Callaghan Prittie. The book is excellent regarding this battalion, it's training, recruitment, active service and stories. Although he was wounded shortly after landing at Suvla (15/8/15) and returned home going back to The Rifle Brigade Depot it would give you an insight into the battalion and I must admit it's hilarious with some of the stories whilst with 1/10th Londons and The Rifle Brigade, got to love someone or a Regiment that can make fun of themselves.

Unfortunately, unless this book is online available to download for free??? it is not cheap to get hold of these days.

Andy

I've just managed to find a copy on ebay, so I'm looking forwards to reading it. Many thanks for letting me know about it Andy

Cheers

Tim

[stiletto_33853]

Great news,

I hope you enjoy it, must admit certain sections made me roar with laughter knowing some of the Rifle Brigade officers he was referring to. Nice little piece in there about being visited by the King after his wounding at Suvla.

Andy

[jbw541]

There is a great short film of the "10th London Regiment" on the British Pathe website.

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

Well done to all the indefatigable contributors in their unceasing bid to unravel the background to Pte Martin!

I am frankly amazed that he should have generated such interest and activity, whereas my request for information about (admittedly similarly obscure) Lieutenant Patrick John O'Shea, IARO and Mentioned in Despatches for his efforts with the No 2 Burma Ford Van Company (1024 Burma MT Coy ASC), went virtually unnoticed!

Kindest regards,

Kim.