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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Hackney Gurkhas - Lemnos - Cairo?


Timble

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You could well be right Steve. It would be good to eliminate some of the other candidates.

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Agreed!

Steve.

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Hi,

I've got 3 pictures of him from his Army service years, I tried to attach them but the file was too big - I'll have another go later.

I haven't got any Birth certificate (only Marriage and Death register with no DOB) and I've been going around in circles trying to find it I've got a Year of Birth as being 1897 now (I first worked it out to being 1898).

Its all very confusing as there are a lot of Martins in the Hackney/Dalston/Haggerston area -where the family originated before moving to Walthamstow,also James is a family name and a popular name, also the boundaries changed between Middlesex, Essex and London. I'm even having trouble locating him on the 1901 Census. I've found him on the 1911 Census at 26 Malvern Road, Dalston, St John at Hackney with birth place being Kingslans,Dalston -which i think is a miss-spelling of Kingsland/Kingsland Road Dalston. After the war on his marriage certificate (dated 1922 to Beatrice May Lynes) he was living at 122 Norfolk Road, Dalston ,Later he moved to 75, Howard Road, Walthamstow and 5, Coopers Avenue Walthamstow. I don't think he lived in Oswald Steet, Clapham Park, but I'm not sure- doesn't ring any bells..

Yes Private 1879 could be a fit....if I buy the 330 and 1879 medal cards from Kew, will I get anymore information than I have now? I'm wondering If i should apply for the pension records for both these Servicemen?

Thanks again for all your help and info...its a really interesting journey of discovery

Tim

BTW Sorry about my dodgy typing, my computer keyboard isn't working and having to use a rubberised USB one - it misses letters and the spacebar isn't very good

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Hi,

.................... After the war on his marriage certificate (dated 1922 to Beatrice May Lynes) he was living at 122 Norfolk Road, Dalston ,.....................

Tim

Are there any names of family members on the marriage certificate - including the witnesses?

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You can get any Medal Index Cards from Ancestry UK for FREE. They will be the same as the ones from National Archives which cost £3.30.

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Hi,

I've got 3 pictures of him from his Army service years, I tried to attach them but the file was too big - I'll have another go later.

Yes Private 1879 could be a fit....if I buy the 330 and 1879 medal cards from Kew, will I get anymore information than I have now? I'm wondering If i should apply for the pension records for both these Servicemen?

Getting the photos posted is your first priority - there may be something that we can spot which helps to confirm who he was. Don't waste your time ordering MIC's as they won't really add much to what we already know at this stage.

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Yes,

His father James Henry Martin DOB 17th May 1871 (i've got a copy of his birth, marriage and death certifcate and various addresses) and his Father in-law John Joshua Lynes

Cheers

Tim

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You can now discount the one I found in Clapton. James Victor Martin deserter.

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I'm even having trouble locating him on the 1901 Census.


In 1901 James Henry MARTIN, aged 29, a Hall Porter, born Dalston, was living in Holborn with his wife Maude, aged 26, at 14, St, John St.


Children: James Victor age 4, born Dalston, Maud Eva, age 2, born Smithfield. Also single sister-in-law Winifred, age 15.


Could this be him?


CGM

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I'm even having trouble locating him on the 1901 Census.
In 1901 James Henry MARTIN, aged 29, a Hall Porter, born Dalston, was living in Holborn with his wife Maude, aged 26, at 14, St, John St.
Children: James Victor age 4, born Dalston, Maud Eva, age 2, born Smithfield. Also single sister-in-law Winifred, age 15.
Could this be him?
CGM

Yes! Although I have him married to Alice Maude Mary Bishop - but that (and the change of area) would explain why I couldn't find him ...wonder if he was working in a nearby hotel?

Thanks so much...another piece ofthe puzzle falls into place

Tim

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1911 Census shows

Father James Henry

Mother Alice Maude

Sister Maude age 13

Sister Marjorie 9

Sister in law Clara Bishop 25.

Now you need to find a death record for his first wife?

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I suspect this is just a case of Alice being known by her second name at this time. Maybe life got too confusing as Maude Eva grew up (just a wild guess).

What I can say is that sister-in-law Winifred's surname is very badly written but could well be BISHOP, which fits with the maiden name you have for Alice Maude..

Also, I'll go back and check, but I'm pretty sure Maude and Winifred where born in similar areas.

CGM

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Yes, Maude and Winifred Bishop were both born in Wallington, Surrey.

And in 1911 Winifred is Clara Winifred BISHOP, age 25, still living with the family. (Born in Wallington, Surrey.)

CGM

So often we wish everyone had a middle name to make life simpler - but obviously it's not true every time !!

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Here's one picture of James Victor Martin in Cairo - The other two have some uniforms in, but are 254KB so I'll have to try and resize them

All thebest

Tim

post-120731-0-28578100-1425746361_thumb.

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Yes, Maude and Winifred Bishop were both born in Wallington, Surrey.

And in 1911 Winifred is Clara Winifred BISHOP, age 25, still living with the family. (Born in Wallington, Surrey.)

CGM

So often we wish everyone had a middle name to make life simpler - but obviously it's not true every time !!

Thanks, that's helped me with my family tree as well! Clara Winifred Bishop was known as "Aunt Win" and lived until she was 70 - I think she worked in a Lyons Tea House

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Normally, I wouldn't hazard a guess at the badge because it's so badly pixelated. Having said that, it does look about right for the regiment that we've been told that he served in (10/Londons).

Edit: when I say that it 'looks about right' for 10/Londons, I mean that it's about the right size and shape.

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Not much more help, I'm afraid. Could be several things, but if he was in the London Regt then it would have to be 10/Londons or 5/Londons, IMHO. More likely 10/Londons. Certainly not RF or ASC.

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Can you take a new photograph of just the cap ?

If your camera has a macro setting you should be able to get a close up of it.

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Tim - a couple of quick comments based on the pics that you posted.

You've posted 3 pics; one in which he's wearing a cap-badge, another of a group of men, and a further pic dated 1918. The cap-badge pic appears to be consistent with your understanding that he served in the 10/Londons. The pic is very pixelated, and it would be helpful if you were able to do a blow-up of the badge. It would also be helpful if you were able to do a blow-up of the cap-badge being worn by one of the men in the group photo.

Just to confuse matters, the cap-badge photo appears to have been taken in the UK. The MIC's that we're using as the basis for this search will only show the unit(s) that he served overseas with, and a man who was being posted overseas would often to posted to a completely different regiment to the one that he was serving with in the UK. So, even if we were able to say definititatively that the badge was that of 10/Londons there would be no guarantee that he served overseas with them. Having said that, I think we can conclude beyond reasonable doubt that were looking for a man in the 10/Londons.

The fact that there is only one man with the same full name (James Victor Martin) doesn't mean too much - the MIC's only record the name given by the man when he signed up, so that means we have to look for any combination of those names. He might even have signed up under a pseudonym. The only way of being sure would be if you had his medals, or some sort of service document, as these would show his service number and regiment. Do you have anything like that? Do you know whether he was known as James, Jim, or Vic/Victor? Or any other name, for that matter?

1879 has to be the front-runner atm, but for the reasons set out above it would be helpful if any further details exist regarding his service.

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For the record the family appear on the Electoral Rolls at the end of the war as follows:

1918: 9 Wayland Avenue, Hackney - James Henry Martin, Alice Maud Mary Martin

1919: 9 Wayland Avenue, Hackney - James Henry Martin, Alice Maud Mary Martin, Emma Martin

1920: 9 Wayland Avenue, Hackney - James Henry Martin, Alice Maud Mary Martin, Emma Martin, James Victor Martin

James Victor Martin would be just about eligible to vote in the 1918 General Election. The Election was in December 1918 and you needed to be 21 to vote - his baptism on 8-10-1898 records his date of birth as 12-2-1897 so he should have been eligible. He, in theory, should be listed as an absent voter at his parents address, or as an "ordinary" voter if he had been discharged and was at home.

Steve.

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