Kenyalad Posted 22 August , 2023 Share Posted 22 August , 2023 (edited) On 02/06/2015 at 13:28, nieuport11 said: RNAS serials are comprehensively listed in the book "Royal Navy Aircraft Serials and Units 1911-1919, by Ray Sturtivant and Gordon Page ISBN 0851301916 Good morning, I have just joined this excellent forum - I am a medal collector by hobby / interest, but so often research has led me to answers on here, so shame on me for having been a beneficiary of your collective knowledge without having contributed. With this first post, I hope to do both. I have medals to WW1 RNAS recipients, but just acquired a interesting period post card not connected to a medal - it just interested me for its context. The post card is here and it appears to show a group of RNAS technicians(?) around an aircraft with tail number 8385 and another machine - my questions, for anyone who may have the book mentioned above and is happy to do a look-up, being (1) identifying the tail number 8385 and (2) what type of machine is in the foreground? The reverse has a hand-written note "Great Yarmouth 1916". Any other observations on this card and the men in it also gratefully received. In the mean time, I hope the card is of interest to you in its own right. Owen Edited 22 August , 2023 by Kenyalad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 22 August , 2023 Share Posted 22 August , 2023 (edited) "12 Short Admiralty 184 Type Tractor BiplaneSeaplanes ordered 28.10.15 Cont No. C.P.9176/15 from Fredk Sage & Co Ltd, Numbered 8380 to8391 & built Peterborough. (225-hp Sunbeam Mohawk) Ser 8385 Delivered by lorry to RNAS Grain 12.2.16; Accepted 4.3.16 (Pickles); RNAS Yarmouth 16.3.16; Left to bomb German High [Seas] Fleet raiding Scarborough 25.4.16 (S/Cdr DA Oliver); while on patrol, stalled from 200ft and dived into sea, bombs exploded, completely wrecked 8.9.15 (F/L CW Graham DSO killed); Deleted 19.9.16." [Sturtivant & Page p.131] Edited 22 August , 2023 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenyalad Posted 22 August , 2023 Share Posted 22 August , 2023 15 minutes ago, horatio2 said: "12 Short Admiralty 184 Type Tractor BiplaneSeaplanes ordered 28.10.15 Cont No. C.P.9176/15 from Fredk Sage & Co Ltd, Numbered 8380 to8391 & built Peterborough. (225-hp Sunbeam Mowhawk) Ser 8385 Delivered by lorry to RNAS Grain 12.2.16; Accepted 4.3.16 (Pickles); RNAS Yarmouth 16.3.16; Left to bomb German High [Seas] Fleet raiding Scarborough 25.4.16 (S/Cdr DA Oliver); while on patrol, stalled from 200ft and dived into sea, bombs exploded, completely wrecked 8.9.15 (F/L CW Graham DSO killed); Deleted 19.9.16." [Sturtivant & Page p.131] Brilliant! Thank you so much. What a tragically short life this aircraft and it's pilot had. So, this photo was a a real moment in time, given the aircraft was only at Gt Yarmouth for 12 days. Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 22 August , 2023 Share Posted 22 August , 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Kenyalad said: the aircraft was only at Gt Yarmouth for 12 days. *385 was based at Yarmouth from16.3.16 to 8.9.16 (six months). The Scarborough sortie was but one day in that period. Edited 22 August , 2023 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenyalad Posted 22 August , 2023 Share Posted 22 August , 2023 3 hours ago, horatio2 said: *385 was based at Yarmouth from16.3.16 to 8.9.16 (six months). The Scarborough sortie was but one day in that period. Ah thank you and sorry, I had mis-read it. Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete-c Posted 23 August , 2023 Share Posted 23 August , 2023 20 hours ago, Kenyalad said: Good morning, I have just joined this excellent forum - I am a medal collector by hobby / interest, but so often research has led me to answers on here, so shame on me for having been a beneficiary of your collective knowledge without having contributed. With this first post, I hope to do both. I have medals to WW1 RNAS recipients, but just acquired a interesting period post card not connected to a medal - it just interested me for its context. The post card is here and it appears to show a group of RNAS technicians(?) around an aircraft with tail number 8385 and another machine - my questions, for anyone who may have the book mentioned above and is happy to do a look-up, being (1) identifying the tail number 8385 and (2) what type of machine is in the foreground? The reverse has a hand-written note "Great Yarmouth 1916". Any other observations on this card and the men in it also gratefully received. In the mean time, I hope the card is of interest to you in its own right. Owen Owen - thank you for posting this image. Initially, having thought this machine was possibly another Type 184, the positioning of the cockpits, and especially the fitment of an oil reservoir/cooler on the starboard side, directly adjacent to the observer's position, points to this being a Short Type 827. Several of this type served at Yarmouth during the period mentioned, one of which was 8221. This machine had an engine failure off Skegness on 8.2.16, returning to Yarmouth the following day, in tow of a drifter. Its wings and tail were badly damaged, so the machine featured would certainly fit the bill! Short 184 3835 was at Yarmouth by 16.3.16, so perhaps this image was taken as a way of depicting the 'old and the new'? I hope this information is of interest. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenyalad Posted 23 August , 2023 Share Posted 23 August , 2023 2 hours ago, pete-c said: Owen - thank you for posting this image. Initially, having thought this machine was possibly another Type 184, the positioning of the cockpits, and especially the fitment of an oil reservoir/cooler on the starboard side, directly adjacent to the observer's position, points to this being a Short Type 827. Several of this type served at Yarmouth during the period mentioned, one of which was 8221. This machine had an engine failure off Skegness on 8.2.16, returning to Yarmouth the following day, in tow of a drifter. Its wings and tail were badly damaged, so the machine featured would certainly fit the bill! Short 184 3835 was at Yarmouth by 16.3.16, so perhaps this image was taken as a way of depicting the 'old and the new'? I hope this information is of interest. Peter. Peter, Many thanks for taking an interest, for your interesting 'old and new' thoughts and for the information on 8221 - makes good sense to me and very interesting. It is wonderful what we (ahem, you) can glean from a 'simple' post card. I am also interested in the 'logo' on the tail of 8385 - "FRED! SAGE & Co" (strikes me as a bit of humour for those in the know) - and the random series of 'dots' on the fuselage of 8385, beneath the cockpit, they couldn't be strike marks, could they? The image is otherwise clean, so I don't think they are blemishes. Or, perhaps my imagination is beginning to run away with me... Thanks again, Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 23 August , 2023 Share Posted 23 August , 2023 3 hours ago, Kenyalad said: (strikes me as a bit of humour for those in the know) I am not "in the know", so please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenyalad Posted 23 August , 2023 Share Posted 23 August , 2023 That's the point - I don't know either, but putting an exclamation mark after "FRED!...." suggests there was humour or similar connected to it. Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 23 August , 2023 Share Posted 23 August , 2023 I thnik that is a lower case 'k' for 'Fredk' as in "12 Short Admiralty 184 Type Tractor BiplaneSeaplanes ordered 28.10.15 Cont No. C.P.9176/15 from Fredk Sage & Co Ltd, Numbered 8380 to8391 & built Peterborough. (225-hp Sunbeam Mowhawk)", as previously posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenyalad Posted 23 August , 2023 Share Posted 23 August , 2023 Right, I feel foolish now but thank you for explaining. Back to school. Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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