Gary Bainbridge Posted 4 January , 2015 Share Posted 4 January , 2015 Hello all After a bit of confirmation/clarification on some research I am carrying out on a Mons Star I picked up recently. It is to a W H Poulter. On the back of the Star is states the following; 72 W H Poulter 4th Middlx I have looked on Ancestry, and the only W H Poulter of the Middlesex Regt I can find, with a 1914 Star, is a William H Poulter, L/9051. His medal card states the following; "Mrs Poulter makes application for 1914 Star in respect of the services of her late husband Pte Wm Henry Poulter. 26.5.19" It also makes reference to 1/Middlx R Checking the casualty list, a William Henry Poulter was killed in action on the 27th Sept 1915, with the 3rd Battalion. I cannot find his Service Record unfortunately. I wanted to check if I have got the right chap? I think I have but the difference in Regt number (72 and L/9051) has got me a little unsure I have made the right connection. As the application for the 14 Star was post the event and by someone else, would this perhaps suggest why there was a different number on the medal? I would love to hear of anymore information/guidance on this. I find it all fascinating! Many thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 4 January , 2015 Share Posted 4 January , 2015 The MIC you found is the only one that I can find on Ancestry with that name in the Middlesex Regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 4 January , 2015 Share Posted 4 January , 2015 GaryWelcome to the forum. I have looked on Ancestry and the National Archives. The latter show two men in the Middlesex Regiment with the Regimental Number 72 - H E C Ham and Norman P Francis.The only W H Poulter I can see, on Ancestry and the National Archives, is the one you have already discovered. William Henry Poulter is shown on the medal rolls as serving in the 1st and 3rd Battalion and not the 4th Battalion. Can you add some scans, or close up photographs of the reverse and the obverse of the 1914 Star? Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woollamc Posted 4 January , 2015 Share Posted 4 January , 2015 There is a service record for an ex-Navy chap called William Harmon Poulter who re-enlisted as a Territorial in the Middlesex Regiment in October 1914. One of his three service numbers was NR 72 (then 20366 via 20072). He was discharged in August 1916 after serving only in the UK and definitely did not qualify for a '14 Star. Could it be that the medal was either issued in error or issued with an incorrect number? William Henry Poulter (L/9051)'s British War medal and Victory Medal roll entry refers to his battalions as 1st and 3rd. William Harmon Poulter's service records refer to 8th and 10th - so even if they used the wrong service number on William Henry's '14 Star, it still doesn't explain why it refers to the 4th Battalion... C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 5 January , 2015 Share Posted 5 January , 2015 Self Awarded perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 5 January , 2015 Share Posted 5 January , 2015 Self Awarded perhaps? Although, I am not stating that there is a problem, without seeing and handling the Star, there is always the possiblity that the star has been re-named, or is even a named modern produced copy 1914 Star. This is the reason I suggested posting scans or close up photographs of both sides of the Star. Of course the Star could be perfectly ok and the problem is the paperwork. Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 6 January , 2015 Share Posted 6 January , 2015 Agree 100%. Scans will help figure it out so hoping to see a few soon. Given the volume of medals issued the chances for errors in paperwork, etc. are great. Hope this mystery can be solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Bainbridge Posted 7 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2015 Many thanks for your replies, I will get some scans when I can and post up, All very interesting stuff. Best Regards Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Bainbridge Posted 7 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2015 Evening all, please find attached photos of the front and back. Thank you thus far for your thoughts. It is interesting to hear what everyone thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 8 January , 2015 Share Posted 8 January , 2015 Oh dear! Certainly renamed medal. Unit would not be 4th Middx. would be 4/Middx. Thanks for the scans & sorry for the bad news. Also NO RANK given on the medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 8 January , 2015 Share Posted 8 January , 2015 Oh dear! Certainly renamed medal. Unit would not be 4th Middx. would be 4/Middx. Thanks for the scans & sorry for the bad news. Also NO RANK given on the medal. Agreed. And It actually says '4th Middlx'., which is very definitely wrong. Hard to tell, but it Looks like it's engraved rather than impressed. I suspect it's self-awarded to this fellow (the service number is too much of a coincidence) who might have imagined he deserved a 14 star: There is a service record for an ex-Navy chap called William Harmon Poulter who re-enlisted as a Territorial in the Middlesex Regiment in October 1914. One of his three service numbers was NR 72 (then 20366 via 20072). He was discharged in August 1916 after serving only in the UK and definitely did not qualify for a '14 Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 8 January , 2015 Share Posted 8 January , 2015 Gary, As already noted this medal is quite clearly engraved with bogus details, and although it appears to be a genuine 1914 Star I would advise that you to return this medal to the person from whom you made the purchase asking for a full refund. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 8 January , 2015 Share Posted 8 January , 2015 Gary I am sorry that your 1914 Star is clearly renamed - it should have impressed naming instead of the engraved naming.If you are keen to start collecting WW1 medals, I would suggest that you invest in a copy of Howard Williamson's "Great War Medal Collectors Companion" Volume One. It is not cheap, but well worth acquiring as it gives details of naming styles, as well as details of the medals themselves.Renamed Medals can be a cheap alternative, if funds are tight, and may have a story behind them, but personally, I prefer to collect officially named items. To confuse the issue further, you do occassionaly find Officially renamed Medals (yours is not one of these!) and there are some Victorian Medals which only turn up as being officially renamed (ie Indian General Service Medal 1854 with Chin Hills clasp to the Norfolk Regiment). To help you, I have attached a scan of the reverse of a 1914 Star showing correct impressed naming. (again there are variations in font especially for the RND)Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 8 January , 2015 Share Posted 8 January , 2015 I've picked up a couple of renamed medals over the years, perhaps in a bag of other medals. I recall a fairly large medal group to a senior naval officer (a Commodore or Vice-Admiral, I think) which came up at auction many years ago, he wasn't entitled to a 14/15 star but it seems that he decided to add one anyway! I have a BWM engraved with the name of a Capt., but there isn't an MIC for him (he had a very unusual hyphenated surname), and I can't find any reference to him in Army, Navy or Air Force Lists. One day I'll try to find out who he was, and maybe it'll reveal an interesting story. The story is the most interesting thing about medals, imho. My guess is that your medal was self-awarded to the chap listed by Woollamc (post #4, above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Bainbridge Posted 13 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2015 Many thanks to you all for the help with this everyone. It is a shame to hear that it isn't what we first thought. It was a chance buy for a friend who collects 4th Middlesex. Would you say that the renaming is period? Or modern? Many thanks again for your help and feedback Best Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 14 January , 2015 Share Posted 14 January , 2015 Isn't Middlesex usually Mddx without the l? I don't recall seeing it that way on MiC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 14 January , 2015 Share Posted 14 January , 2015 Isn't Middlesex usually Mddx without the l? I don't recall seeing it that way on MiC's. Agreed, but the fact that it's engraved rather than impressed is the more significant point, as is the fact there's no rank shown. I mentioned the spelling in post #11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon2 Posted 14 January , 2015 Share Posted 14 January , 2015 Not sure if it helps but I have attached a reverse pic of my wife's Great Uncle Franks' 14-15 star. He is in my signature. Regards, Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cgunn916 Posted 10 February , 2015 Share Posted 10 February , 2015 Hello, I have been looking for the family of William Henry Poulter Pte. L/9051 MIDDX. Rt as I have in my position a medal or medallion with this information stamped around the outside edge. The reason I have this medallion is that my great mother was married to W.H. Poulter in 1908 and they had 3 children before he was killed in action during the first world war. She later married Sidney George Bristow in 1920 and my grandmother was from that marriage. In trying to research my grandmothers father. In a letter written by Williams' oldest son to his step sister (my grandmother) in 63' regarding the death of their mother he mentioned being in a Japanese POW camp and returning by way of Canada back to London then heard she married and moved to the states. Ive always wanted to find someone from the Poulter line to return this medallion too but not having alot of information to go on that was current has proven difficult. I only just recently found most of this information while researching my family. Ive uploaded some pics of the medallion but cant seem to get a good pic of the outer edge. I was hoping someone here could tell me what this is and give some advise. Either way, thank you in advance for any time spent on this matter. Chantel Wheeler Sacramento, CA USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 10 February , 2015 Share Posted 10 February , 2015 This is W H Poulters Victory Medal as in post number 4. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cgunn916 Posted 12 February , 2015 Share Posted 12 February , 2015 The victory medal i have isnt re-named for Wm Henry Poulter is it? I'm thinking it's legit considering the family connection. I would be interested in knowing the story about the star medal and how they came up with Williams name for it. Anyways, Im still searching for his descendants to return it to them. That in itself is going to be an interesting story. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 13 February , 2015 Share Posted 13 February , 2015 Chantel, Just a few queries, was your Great Grandmother Margaret Dora Bell? If so then William and Margaret had children William Henry in 1909, Bertram in 1916 and Frances (female) in 1911. William Henry junior seems to have married Dorothy Trimnell in 1935. They had children – Robin and Christopher. Bertram married Rose Jordan in 1946, they had a child – Ronald in 1948. If you have an ancestry account you could contact a member of the Trimnell family who may know the whereabouts of Robin, Christopher or Ronald Poulter grandsons of William Henry Poulter senior. Also, if you have an ancestry account you can find records for Sidney George Bristow and Margaret. He seems to be under George Sidney Bristow on various electoral rolls in London but with Margaret Dora Bristow so seems to be the right man. As to your other questions – without seeing how the name etc is impressed on the medal it would be difficult for those in the know to say if it is ‘legit’ but with the family connection it would seem likely. The star medal to 72 W H Poulter is for another man - William Harmon Poulter who decided he should have a 1914 star and had his name added to another man’s. I presume the original name was polished away? TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cgunn916 Posted 14 February , 2015 Share Posted 14 February , 2015 Yes, I am the great grand daughter of Margaret Dora Bell. I have been looking for any info on Sidney George Bristow since he is my grandmothers father and been hitting a wall. I will look at the information you gave and try to locate someone through that family. How exciting. I hope to follow this thru. Wish me luck. Chantel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cgunn916 Posted 2 November , 2015 Share Posted 2 November , 2015 Hello again, I'm posting an update to this post regarding my quest of finding a descendant of William Henry Poulter Pte. L/9051 MIDDX. Rt so that I may return his Victory medal. Well, I found him. Incredible and blessed to have the Internet in our day and age and the things we are able to accomplish because of it. I did find the grandson of William Henry Poulter and he lives in England. We have been corresponding by e-mail and he is excited as am I to learn of my search for someone to return Williams Victory medal too. I have some unfortunate news to update as well. After packaging up everything to send to this descendant (I live in the United States, California to be exact) I happily went to a local mailing store to ship off his package only to be told they wanted at least $ 100.00 U.S. dollars to be able to complete the order. That isn't even including insurance. My heart sank. I cannot afford to pay this price to send the package over seas. After all this time spent tracking down a living descendant of this medal recipient that he earned by dying when he was killed in WWI. I walked out of the store in tears. As I sat in my car thinking about this whole experience, I realized what date it was. It was September 27, 2015. William was killed in France on September 27, 1915 exactly 100 years to the day. I still have the medal. I don't know how I will ever be able to return it but I will keep searching as I always have. This is deeply important to me that I return this to his family. I just wanted to thank The Great War Forum for helping me for part of this journey. Many respects and thanks for all that you are and have done. Sincerely, Chantel Gunn U.S.A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 2 November , 2015 Share Posted 2 November , 2015 Have you got a price from DHL or UPS or similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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