robbie Posted 3 November , 2004 Share Posted 3 November , 2004 After hearing an excellent talk by Jim Ure last night at a WFA meeting I thought I'd try to find out whether there were any women pilots who experienced combat. I found two such French woman: Marie Marvingt (1875-1963) who is cited in the Legion of Honour as piloting bomber missions over Germany in WWI. She may be the first woman pilot to actually participate in combat operations. Hélène Dutrieu volunteered for war service with France's Air Patrol in 1914 and was accepted. She made flights from Paris to check on the location and movement of German troops. http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/wom...pilots_ww1.html Can any members add to this list? Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 3 November , 2004 Share Posted 3 November , 2004 I cant add to the list but this is a great find on your part. I hadnt even contemplated women as pilots in 1914 due to a combination of "social" restrictions and the relative infancy of flying machines. Off to bang my head against the wall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 3 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 3 November , 2004 I cant add to the list but this is a great find on your part. I hadnt even contemplated women as pilots in 1914 due to a combination of "social" restrictions and the relative infancy of flying machines. Off to bang my head against the wall! Don't do that mate.. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 I cant add to the list but this is a great find on your part. I hadnt even contemplated women as pilots in 1914 due to a combination of "social" restrictions and the relative infancy of flying machines. Off to bang my head against the wall! Don't do that mate.. Robbie Not surprisingly there was no damage done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 This is a first for me as well. I had heard of Russian Pilots during WW2,and the ladies who flew planes in the UK during WW2(was it transport command?Flew them to combat units,i believe.Bombers,Fighters,etc)but never lady pilots,during WW1. Great stuff. All the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 A photograph of Praporshik (Ensign) Princess Eugenie M Shakhovskaya, the first female Russian combat pilot, is below. Clearly, she is not wearing her flying outfit. The lady was convicted of treason for passing information to the enemy and sentenced to be executed, but was spared by Czar Nicholas II, and her sentenced was commuted to life in a convent. She served with the Reds during the Civil War, and was killed by them after she had shot one of her assistants while under the influence of drugs. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 A photograph of Russia's second female combat pilot, Lyubov A Golanchikova, is below. This lady flew in action for the Red forces during the Civil War and also served as a flying instructor with the Reds. Later, she became a chauffeur in New York. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 4 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 November , 2004 Hi Gareth, This is fantastic - we now know of 4 such women. Thank you. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 5 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 5 November , 2004 It was alleged that the Germans used women pilots disguised as men. WITH THE AMERICAN ARMY IN FRANCE, Sept. 11-- [by the Associated Press]: That the Germans are using women as military aviators is indicated in a report that in a machine recently brought down by the Americans the pilot, who was killed, was a woman. The captain of a company of the One Hundred and Sixty-seventy Infantry says the pilot of a German plane brought down near Sergy Aug. 28 by Lieut. Miller Thompson of the American air force was a woman. The discovery of the sex of the aviator was made, the captain says, when his men buried the enemy pilot and her observer. http://www.wwi-models.org/mail-archive/archive.1997/474 Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AAC Cadet Leader Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 Hello! It was just called to my attention that your conversation reflects the same investigation as ours. Please visit us and let's share what we've learned. Great minds think alike! BTW if any of you over here wind up signing up over at theaerodrome as well, please tell our fine webmaster i sent ya! (Someday it might get me a free MvR t-shirt or sumpthin. ) http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17628 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 Women pilots???? They'll be giving them the vote next Sorry - couldn't resist Seriously though, I am surprised that women were pilots, even if it was as a "spotter". How things have changed. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 21 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Women pilots???? They'll be giving them the vote next Sorry - couldn't resist Seriously though, I am surprised that women were pilots, even if it was as a "spotter". How things have changed. Les Hi Les, Probably a silly question but I'll ask it anyway - Are there women combat pilots nowadays in Britain or any other country(ies)? Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Robbie, When I visited the Women at War exhibition at the IWM last year there was on display the flying suit for (I think) the first female combat pilot in the British forces. I cant remember the name but I believe she served in Iraq but this might have been after cessation of hostilities - the first time around in 1991. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 21 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Thanks mate. Just did a little googling and found this: OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM -- Capt. Jennifer Wilson, a B-2 Spirit pilot, is the first female B-2 pilot to fly a combat mission in Iraq. Capt. Jennifer Wilson, a B-2 Spirit pilot deployed with the 393rd Expeditionary Bomb Squadron, landed on the runway April 1 at her forward-deployed location, making her the first female B-2 pilot to fly a combat mission. "Flying is great," Wilson said. "I can't imagine doing anything else right now, and to be able to have a chance to fly in combat with the B-2 was an awesome experience. "Formerly a B-1 Lancer pilot, Operation Iraqi Freedom was not the first time she flew a combat mission, Wilson said. She also flew for Operation Allied Force in Kosovo, the first time the B-1s were involved in combat. (U.S. Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. Richard Freeland) - 04/02/03 There's a photo of her also at: http://www.4law.co.il/jess20104.htm Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Pope Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 The French thought von Richtofen had to be a woman, to fly a red plane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Pope Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 By the way, the USAF currently has 50 or so female fighter pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 22 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2004 By the way, the USAF currently has 50 or so female fighter pilots. Thanks mate. Is there a website re this? Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 I had heard of Russian Pilots during WW2,and the ladies who flew planes in the UK during WW2(was it transport command?Flew them to combat units,i believe.Bombers,Fighters,etc) Simon - The UK women would have been in the Air Transport Auxiliary (ATA). From memory about 700 pilots flew with the ATA of whom about 140 were women, the best known being Amy (Johnson) Mollison. This lady flew in action for the Red forces during the Civil War and also served as a flying instructor with the Reds. Later, she became a chauffeur in New York. Gareth - any more info on this lady? Interesting that having flown for the Reds, she ended up in New York. Presumably, she saw sense. I saw an interview on TV once with a Russian woman who had driven a tank in WW2. But she couldn't park the thing to save her life..... Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 Adrian Below is an extract from The Imperial Russian Air Service by Durkota, Darcey and Kulikov, ISBN 0 9637110 2 4. It's all that I know about the woman, but perhaps someone else on the Forum has more information. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 Amazing! Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 Women pilots???? They'll be giving them the vote next Sorry - couldn't resist Seriously though, I am surprised that women were pilots, even if it was as a "spotter". How things have changed. Les Hi Les, Probably a silly question but I'll ask it anyway - Are there women combat pilots nowadays in Britain or any other country(ies)? Robbie Robbie Virtually all Western nations now allow women to train as combat pilots; the change took place shortly after the 1st Gulf War or thereabouts and for many years beforehand they had been transport pilots (since early-mid '80s?). Some Govts simply imposed blanket sex equality legislation on their armed forces this period due to political dogmatism (e.g. Canada, Scandinavia etc.) or shortly afterwards (Germany); for others, such as US, Australia and UK etc., it was part of a gradual programme to open up all parts of the military except infantry, tanks, field artillery and parts of the Navy to women. Ricardo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 28 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2004 Please to hear that, Ricardo. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 Hi Les, Probably a silly question but I'll ask it anyway - Are there women combat pilots nowadays in Britain or any other country(ies)? Robbie Robbie, Sorry about not replying.... been wrapped up in a few other things.... but the others have said what I would have anyway Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 28 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2004 Thanks Les. I too have been busy...writing stuff for work. Very boring. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc2 Posted 21 January , 2005 Share Posted 21 January , 2005 Actually, there seem to have been quite a few of the ladies who flew in combat in WWI-- some have been mentioned earlier in the string of responses. Mrs. A.S. Heinrich, an American—She reportedly flew an airplane during WWI in Italy for the Italian Government. I have no documentation on this, and no idea whether or not she really flew in combat. A photo of her exists in the forward machine gun nest of an aircraft on the ground. Ljuba Galantshikoff (Her full name was apparently Lioubov Galantchikova)—a Latvian. She had a short movie (cinema) career before becoming a pilot, under the name of Millie Moore (also reported to have performed as singer/dancer in a vaudeville company as Molly Moret). She learned to fly from a Frenchman, Leon Letort, with whom she later (In july1913) flew in a Morane from Johannisthal (Berlin) to Paris, while Letort was returning to Paris after his non-stop-flight from Paris to Johannisthal. The third Russian woman to be licensed (#56, of 29 Dec 1911), flying a Farman at Gatchina. On 22 November 1912, at Johannistal, she challenged the altitude record of Melli Beese, and then reached an altitude of 2200 meters in a Fokker with a 100 horsepower motor (also while carrying a passenger, whose name is not known). She flew for Fokker as an aircraft demonstrator in 1912. She ended up working for the Terenchenko factory, where she received aircraft . In 1917, she also joined the Imperial Air Force, serving in the reconnaissance squadron of the 26th Corps, where she flew as an observer, and also training pilots for the Red Air Fleet. She married Boris Philipoff just before the Revolution, and after the revolution they moved to New York City in 1923 (using the name Phillips). After the war, she reportedly became a hair dresser and then a taxi driver in New York City. Elena Samsonova—Russian, 4th woman to receive a Russian license (#167, 25 Aug 1913) at Imperial Moscow Aviation Association Flying School. Born 1890. Automobile racer before taking up aviation. Trained by Lev Uspensky. Trained on a Farman. Medical Student at outbreak of war in 1914-- Served as a nurse, and as a General's driver. Flew in 5th Corps Air Detachment of the Imperial Air Force as a reconnaissance pilot. She was removed from flight duties by her commander, who thought she was an inadequate pilot. After the revolution, she joined the 26th Corps Air Detachment as a spotter and reconnaissance pilot. Later became sports and physical education instructor. Died 1958. Eugenie Shakovskaya—Russian Princess and cousin of the Czar, who learned to fly in a Wright, and later reportedly served in a reconnaissance squadron during WWI. Under an personal order from Nicolas II of November 1914, she was given the rank of ensign in the 1st aerial squadron. This was seen as a honorific, and she was not able to really get into the military. Born St. Petersberg 1889. Flew with Vladimir Lebedev at Gatchina, then moved to Germany to continue training with Wssewolod Abramovitch, chief pilot of he Wright Company. Received her license on a Farman (German likcense # 274, 16 Aug 1912) at Johannistal, near Berlin. Became a Wright aircraft demonstrator for the Wright company in St. Petersberg. Crashed a Wright in April 1913 at St. Petersberg, killing Abramovitch. There is lots of apocryphal history on her life after the war in Lebow's book "Before Amelia". INTERESTINGLY, SHE WAS WRITTEN UP IN "LECTURES POUR TOUS" OF 15 JAN 1916, PAGE 594, WITH A PHOTO. ACCORDING TO THE CAPTION, SHE JOINED THE ARMY OF THE NORTHWEST AS A VOLUNTEER AVIATOR. SHE THEN EXECUTED AUDACIOUS RAIDS ABOVE THE GERMAN LINES. IN THE COURSE OF A PERILOUS RECONNAISSANCE, HER MACHINE WAS STRUCK WITH ENEMY FIRE, AND SHE WAS WOUNDED. THE CZAR DECORATED HER WITH THE MILITARY ORDER OF SAINT GEORGE. Nadedja Degtereva (also called Nadeshda)—Ukrainian (born in Kiev) who joined the Russian air force while pretending to be male. She flew on the Galacian Front. She was wounded in aerial combat in 1915, and when her sex was discovered, she became a national heroine. She recovered, and then rejoined the air force on the Caucausis front. Sophie Dolgorukaya—trained in France with Delagrange, but licensed in Russia (#234, 5 June 1914). Served as pilot during WWI. Joined revolutionary Army 26th Corps Air Squadron as pilot after the war. The most interesting to me is Marie Marvingt, who was probably the first to fly in combat. An early pilot (#3 in the world to get a license), she was also an accomplished balloon pilot, and was the first woman to pilot a balloon across the English Channel from the continent to the UK. As early as 1910, she recommended the creation of air ambulance units to the French Government, and was laughed at heartily. At the outbreak of the war, she volunteered to serve in the air force as a pilot, and once again was laughed out of the office. In 1915, while serving as a nurse, she (anecdotally) admitted a patient to the hospital who was very distraught because he was a pilot, and without him his bomber could not go on a mission that day. She supposedly rode her bike to the airfield, and convinced the squadron commander that she could fly his airplane on the mission. She subsequently flew several missions over German-occupied Metz. This was later recognized in her Legion d’Honneur citation. Much information about all these ladies is available, though perhaps the best summary is found in “Before Amelia”, by Eileen Lebow, published by Brassey’s. I am doing a study of all the women pilots before World War I (concentrating on Marvingt)—If anyone has any good references, articles, or photos/postcards of any of these ladies, I would be interested in obtaining originals or copies. Thanks. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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