Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

German IR 169

German Infantry Regiment 169 (Baden Regt 8)

Recommended Posts

German IR 169

In a separate entry on the Book page, I recently posted a blog on a book I have just published titled Imperial Germany’s “Iron Regiment” of the First World War; War Memories of Service with Infantry Regiment 169, 1914-1918. My grandfather, Albert Rieth, was veteran of this unit, and his war-time journal, which inspired my book, is included in its entirety. Additional information on this book can be found on that site, as well as in the attached press release. This regiment, based in the German of Baden, fought in many of the most significant battles on the Western front, to include: (1914) Mulhouse, Battle of the Frontiers, Race to the Sea, Flanders; (1915) La Bassee/Flanders, the Somme; (1916) Somme/Serre Sector; (1917) Southern Alsace, Aisne Campaign; (1918) Spring Offensives, Somme and Meuse-Argonne. Of the 23,000 men that served with this regiment in the course of the war, 13,000 were counted as casualties. I have an enduring interest in this regiment and welcome an exchange with those that share the same interest. Regards, John Rieth

Press Release IR 169.docx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Khaki

Thank you for the information, I have just added it to my 'wish list' , I should have it by the years end.

khaki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
German IR 169

Thanks Khaki, and best wishes on Armistice Day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Khaki

Many thanks, same to you

khaki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fritz

I remember IR 169. There is a booklett written by Otto Laiss: "The Battle of the Somme 1916". He is also a veteran of this regiment and talks about his time as a machine gunner.

Fritz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
German IR 169

Thanks Fritz, Appreciate the comments. Yes, I was able to include quite a bit of Lais' booklet. His account is very griping. He actually commanded my grandfather's 9th Company in the final battle of the Somme in August 1914 (long after my grandfather was discharged from his wounds in 1915). Of the 80 or so men who went into the battle, only 19 returned. All the best, John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
robinhood_1984

Good afternoon,

 

Upon digging in to my grandfathers first world war involvement and for a long time assuming that he was in the Prussian army due to his being from Iserlohn in Westfalen and thus his records would have been destroyed in the bombings of WWII, it now appears that he served for whatever reason in the Baden army in IR-169. I have found two mentions of him in the missing lists from 1914 and 1915 which tie in with the little we know. 
We have a photo of him in a military hospital with other soldiers during Christmas 1914. He is reported as missing on the list published on November 22nd 1914, presumably this is when he was wounded, and again on October 12th 1915.

His name was Ludwig Seifert (in other sources its spelt Seifarth, which is the version we go by today) His full name was Friedrich Rudolf Ludwig Seifert (Seifarth) and he was born on May 2nd 1885 in Iserlohn. As far as I can find out there are no other Ludwig Seifert's or variants there of of that name from Iserlohn in the military age range to match the Ludwig Seifert in the missing lists of IR-169 for it to be anyone other than my grandfather.

I'm still puzzled as to why he'd be in the Baden army, unless he happened to be living in the area at the time, which we have no knowledge of. 

Whatever happened to him after October 1915 I don't know, but he did survive the war and went on to fight in WWII but he'd have been 60 in 1945 so in what capacity he was involved by then I don't know. My father maintains that he was in the Waffen SS towards the end of the war and I know they did conscript the very young and old towards the end so perhaps there's some truth in it. My father was born in 1950 when his father, my grand father would have been 65 and as far as I know, he died sometime in the early 60s, long before my birth.

 

Below is the photo we have. My grandfather is in the middle row, second from the right, wearing the coat with his arm in a sling.

IMG_0001-20150920_123056.jpg.a13b644a0918bf54fa46cbc5014a7ec0.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AOK4

Hello,

 

he was not wounded again according to the Verlustlisten of 12 October 1915: it was a correction that he was not missing but wounded and back to his unit.

 

Besides the date of publication could be quite some time after the event (which is clear in the case of his being missing in 1914 only being corrected in October 1915).

 

You can easily find his Kriegsstammrollen, they are still available today.

 

Jan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AOK4

seifart01.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AOK4

He apparantly was sent back to a frontline unit on 20 June 1915. Unfortunately I don't have more info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
robinhood_1984

Many thanks for that Jan!

How did you find that information? I cannot figure out how to use the Landesarchiv-bw website in any meaningful way. I wonder if there is any way to get a larger resolution of that document you attached above. My father can read most of it but all the information in column 12 for example, the battles fought in, we can't read that at all.

 

One very interesting thing that we didn't know about was his then wife and that he had 4 children at the time. None of this was known to us but its hardly surprising as he was only about 30 then and in his early to mid 60s when he had my dad and his older sister with another woman.

 

The only other mention I can find for Ludwig Seifert on the website is the suggestion that he received the Ritterkreuz in 1915, but I can't seem to find any sign of an original document to back that up and there is no mention of medals on the attachment you included above so either it didn't happen, or it happened after the above document?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
charlie2
3 hours ago, robinhood_1984 said:

My father can read most of it but all the information in column 12 for example, the battles fought in, we can't read that at all.

 

Column 12:

Feldzug an der Westfront 1914

12-14.9.14, Schlacht bei Nancy - Epinal

19-30.9.14, Kämpfe bei Flirey

7-12.10.14, Schlacht bei Arras

13.10.14, Stellungskampf in Artois

14.10.14, Stellungskampf in Französischen Flandern

15-20.10.14, Schlacht bei Lille

 

Charlie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
robinhood_1984
2 hours ago, charlie2 said:

 

Column 12:

Feldzug an der Westfront 1914

12-14.9.14, Schlacht bei Nancy - Epinal

19-30.9.14, Kämpfe bei Flirey

7-12.10.14, Schlacht bei Arras

13.10.14, Stellungskampf in Artois

14.10.14, Stellungskampf in Französischen Flandern

15-20.10.14, Schlacht bei Lille

 

Charlie

 

Thanks Charlie, how on earth did you manage to read that?! lol

 

Do you think I'd be right to assume that his wounding in 1914 and missing status published in November 1914 would have been in the fighting near Lille on the 15-20th of October?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
charlie2

His record states that he was reported missing on 20.10.14 at Quincy. From the beginning of the the casualty list for 1914

 

C9A0AE97-07D8-4D9D-BD5D-80DB9BF5FAFB.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
robinhood_1984

Thanks Charlie,

I've just noticed it on his record where it says that. Can you read what the rest of the writing says underneath it. Also, can you make out his wife's name. First name looks like Anna but I cant make out what it says she was born as for a surname.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AOK4

Anna geb. Moliter.

The man went missing near Quinchy on 20 October 1914, yet he was only wounded on 27 November 1914 by a bullet in the right hand. He then was treated in the hospital of Douai until 5 December 1914 and then in the Reserve Lazarett Marburg until 21 January 1915.

What he exactly did between 20 October and 27 November 1914 is quite unclear.

 

Jan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
robinhood_1984
On 5/10/2018 at 03:03, AOK4 said:

Anna geb. Moliter.

The man went missing near Quinchy on 20 October 1914, yet he was only wounded on 27 November 1914 by a bullet in the right hand. He then was treated in the hospital of Douai until 5 December 1914 and then in the Reserve Lazarett Marburg until 21 January 1915.

What he exactly did between 20 October and 27 November 1914 is quite unclear.

 

Jan

Thanks again Jan.

Where abouts did you find out that he was back to a front line unit on June 20th 1915? Also, I haven't been able to find his records myself that you kindly shared above which have revealed so much information so far. Is this something I could find myself or is it something you've subscribed to to get access?

I'm also wondering if more records exist for him as the one above covers up until his wounding and hospitalisation in 1914/15 and if he was back on the front in June 1915 then surely there would be more information entered to his files? Is it possible/likely that he was sent to another regiment from June 1915 onwards and hence why this records stop at 1914, or would he keep these same records no matter where he went? 

I ask because my father was always under the impression that he transfered at some point in the war to the "German army", and he had always though that he started the war in the Austrian army but I'm now wondering if he started in the Baden army and then later transfered to a regular Prussian regiment, which would explain why no further records exist, wouldn't it? I'm of the impression that the Prussian army records in Potsdam for WWI were lost due to bombing raids in 1945?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
charlie2
2 hours ago, robinhood_1984 said:

Thanks again Jan.

Where abouts did you find out that he was back to a front line unit on June 20th 1915? Also, I haven't been able to find his records myself that you kindly shared above which have revealed so much information so far. Is this something I could find myself or is it something you've subscribed to to get access?

I'm also wondering if more records exist for him as the one above covers up until his wounding and hospitalisation in 1914/15 and if he was back on the front in June 1915 then surely there would be more information entered to his files? Is it possible/likely that he was sent to another regiment from June 1915 onwards and hence why this records stop at 1914, or would he keep these same records no matter where he went? 

I ask because my father was always under the impression that he transfered at some point in the war to the "German army", and he had always though that he started the war in the Austrian army but I'm now wondering if he started in the Baden army and then later transfered to a regular Prussian regiment, which would explain why no further records exist, wouldn't it? I'm of the impression that the Prussian army records in Potsdam for WWI were lost due to bombing raids in 1945?

 

The photo of the Stammrolle that Jan posted can be found here by scrolling through to 2. Kompanie here, which is the being of the entries for IR 169 https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/olf/struktur.php?bestand=13908&klassi=001.003.009.009

At the bottom of column 10 is the next link in the chain, it records his posting to 4. Ersatz Kompanie, 1. Ersatzbataillon 169. Go back to the index linked to above and click on 1. Ersatzbataillon which will bring up the start of another index, to save you the trouble of scrolling through, he is named on Bild 47 https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/bild_zoom/thumbnails.php?thumbnailsProSeite=10&gewaehlteSeite=&groesseThumbnails=100&bestand=13908&id=3472674&basisid=&thumbnailsStart=&ausgangspunkt=&thumbnailAusschnitt=&zustandDivOptionen=hidden&treffer_dokumente=

 

From my meager knowledge of the Stammrollen it looks to me as though he was posted back to IR 169 in the field. If I am correct you will have to go through all the indexes for each company till you hopefully find him. A starting point would be his old company - No2. The entry should then record his next movement.

 

Charlie

 

In case you hadn‘t noticed his original military service in 1903-05 was with Füsilier-Regiment 39, which was a Prussian army regiment.

 

Edited by charlie2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BKK

Hello,

I finally have the time to get back into researching my grandfathers service in WWI. I have his militar pass book, and trying to find his frontline service unit. I have good reason to believe it was the IR 169 from June 1917 until the end of the war. The last entry after his basic training says 52 ID ins Feld. There is also a marking in the book saying IR 169 2 Kompanie. I have just ordered THE IRON REGIMENT book, and real excited to read a history book in english on this regiment. I am also looking for any info added by the experts on this site. Thanks in advance for ANYTHING.

 

My Grandfather was actually born and raised in Switzerland. He lived there until he was 92. His father was a staunch German from the Baden area who told him to go fight for the fatherland, and so he volunteered. He made it through without any major physical injuries, but he went through periods of starvation during the war which stayed with him his whole life. Nobody was allowed to leave anything on their plates.

 

I feel real lucky to have photos of him during the war and his passbook. He never talked about the war to his family, and probably did not have anyone in Switzerland to talk about it either. Anything anyone can add from these documents and photos I look forward to it. Anyone who might have his name on some records or know where to find. His name was Josef Glanzmann.

 

One Uniform question. In one picture he is wearing a hat with a visor. Is that an only NCO hat? Could he have been a Lance Corporal?

 

Thank you!

P1010220.JPG

P1010237.JPG

P1010230.JPG

WW1.jpg

WW1 - Copy.jpg

Scan10062.JPG

Scan10060.JPG

Scan10061.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BKK

Wow. Thanks for the above archive link. We found him on the 2-169 Kriegstamrolle. Looks like he was transfered to 111th Regiment in 4.11.17.

2-169 Stamrolle.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Martin Feledziak

Wow

 

some great family photography 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BKK
11 hours ago, Martin Feledziak said:

Wow

 

some great family photography 

Yes very lucky to have some photographs. Even the one escorting POWs. Need to now find the Kreigstamrolle for the 111th IR that he was transferred to for perhaps the rest of the war. So great that they have these books scanned and available for free online.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BKK

Martin, I can't thank you enough! We are getting closer. So this report confirms he was in 111th 10th Kompanie.

 

Never heard he was wounded in any way. That will be news to my mom.

 

Thanks so much for this database. So many other family members are popping up on it!!

Edited by BKK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×