trenchtrotter Posted 12 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2017 Indeed on paper if you were to sell it without re speccing it and were caught its five years jail time. No offence for the buyer..... TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 12 May , 2017 Share Posted 12 May , 2017 23 minutes ago, trenchtrotter said: Indeed on paper if you were to sell it without re speccing it and were caught its five years jail time. No offence for the buyer..... TT How can you get 5 years for a piece of metal that's incapable of even chambering a round? Even old spec has a welded barrel, cut bolt and blocked receiver. Not a weapon at all. I can't see any attempt to prosecute as a section 5 getting past a good lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 12 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2017 See the law change 2/5/17. You can't sell old spec deacs. Don't shoot the messenger. Now weather there would would be a prosecution is another thing but it's on the books now. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 12 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2017 Section 128 Policing and Crime Act. Max is 5 years. As of 2/5/17. Old spec / non EU deacs are classed as defectively deactivated. TT 22 minutes ago, Gunner Bailey said: How can you get 5 years for a piece of metal that's incapable of even chambering a round? Even old spec has a welded barrel, cut bolt and blocked receiver. Not a weapon at all. I can't see any attempt to prosecute as a section 5 getting past a good lawyer. Not under section 5 but as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 12 May , 2017 Share Posted 12 May , 2017 Appreciated but I'd like to see it tested in the courts. 5 years for something that just looks like a gun, when people get shorter sentences for GBH, stabbings and other for anti social behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 12 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2017 That is a max sentance on indictment. Not sure if a mandatory term. Either way you risk fine / prison and end up with a CRO / criminal conviction. Travel / job / liberty at jeopardy. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 13 May , 2017 Share Posted 13 May , 2017 In this case the law is an ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 13 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2017 GB, Agreed. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted 13 May , 2017 Share Posted 13 May , 2017 The law is definitely an ass! Consider deactivated firearms and replica firearms. I can buy a deactivated SMLE from any dealer without a problem, however if I wanted to buy a replica SMLE, (Denix make one) I would have to prove that I was a member of a re-enactment society, a crown servant for the purpose of employment. require it for a museum or gallery or TV or theatrical performance. Written proof is required. Why? Because a replica falls within the scope of the Violent Crime Reduction Act whereas a deactivated firearm does not. You may consider there is, essentially, not too much difference between a deactivated firearm and a replica. The law does not, apparently, agree. Of course, the VCR Act only applies to weapons designed later than 1870, so I can buy as many replica Pattern 1853 Enfields or Brown Bess muskets as I like, Go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 14 May , 2017 Share Posted 14 May , 2017 (edited) And you could no more convert a replica to a live weapon than you could an 'old' spec deact. I think this is the most stupid law passed in my lifetime. Edited 14 May , 2017 by Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted 15 May , 2017 Share Posted 15 May , 2017 Indeed so, but of course, parliament has to be seen To Do Something about violent crime and obviously limiting the public's access to replica firearms will accomplish this. I am sure that violent crime has decreased and Britain is a safer place now that Joe Public is unable to buy a replica SMLE or MP40 over the counter. I do sometimes wonder about the mental processes of MP's. Do they take any advice on these matters or is it, as I have long suspected, merely a knee jerk reaction. I once wrote to an MP (Labour) regarding the firearms laws and a pending review and received a very snotty reply, but that's by the by, perhaps the said MP did have an extensive knowledge of firearms and the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 To anybody who knows anything about firearms, Section 128 has clearly been badly drafted as it takes no account of whether a deact has been literally 'defectively deactivated' or not. The scope for convictions that are clearly contrary to natural justice is obvious. E.g. "For the purpose of this section, something is a “defectively deactivated weapon” if... ...(c) it has not been rendered so incapable in a way that meets the technical specifications for the deactivation of the weapon that apply at the time when the weapon is made available for sale or as a gift or (as the case may be) when it is sold or given as a gift". Which seems to imply that selling a deact that has been chopped up *beyond* the current spec is just as illegal as selling one below the current spec - which is obviously nonsensical. Therefore how well the law stands up in court remains to be seen. Trouble is, who wants to be on the receiving end of a test case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 The law has now got so farcical that I advise new members of my Living History group to no longer bother getting de-acts, but to go straight for a live firer instead. They can travel back and forth to Europe with no hassle, hold their value better, are generally cheaper to buy and in better condition than some of the deactivated fence posts that used to be on offer. The local constabularies seem to have no problem with the idea, so apart from individual security issues, it works well for us. Between the VCR Bill and the mess concerning de-acts, they are actually adding to the numbers of live firers being held, which I suspect was probably contrary to expectations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 47 minutes ago, T8HANTS said: The law has now got so farcical that I advise new members of my Living History group to no longer bother getting de-acts, but to go straight for a live firer instead. Fine for bolt action rifles, not too difficult for some revolvers, but virtually impossible for a Lewis, which is the object of this thread ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 June , 2017 Share Posted 18 June , 2017 test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmroberts Posted 19 June , 2017 Share Posted 19 June , 2017 Sorry we cannot have the GWF advising on the details regarding the process of selling a firearm beyond the comments above. I have hidden one post with some specific details which I think might well have taken us into dubious territory. Keith Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 21 June , 2017 Share Posted 21 June , 2017 (edited) If you have a old spec deact you can keep it, but you cant sell or give it away now. unless you have re-deactivated. Edited 21 June , 2017 by pioneecorps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 10 July , 2017 Share Posted 10 July , 2017 Hi, I have an old Lewis kicking around, I seem to remember it was made in early 1917. It is stamped "DP" which I assume makes it Drill Purpose ? A couple of questions... would that mean it was demilled "back then" ? Can i assume it is a purely British one and not colonial? Did they turn factory new weapons into DP or did they get old ones and turn them into DP? I also have a little certificate from the UK that it is demilled. I guess if I was going to sell it it would have to stay on the continent. As a totally academic question, assuming the new laws/Regulations had not come into effect, just what IS a Demilled Lewis worth? Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 10 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2017 Well Chris repeating what has been said To sell or gift or swap it you would need to resubmit to a EU approved proof house and have further work done. It would have to be welded so it can't cock and dry fire for starters. Your current U.K. Deac certificate is ok and is part of the proof required that gun is deactivated together with markings on gun. You can keep it legally in its current state. You can't sell etc. DP guns were not factory made but old worn out ones no longer safe for service. DP does not equal deac. DP could still fire. New deac rules apply across all of EU. Value? Who knows. Much reduced from pre new spec! So to be clear, if you wish to sell it, resubmit it for further work. It will get more proof marks and a new cert. Only then will you be legal. You can can tell us then it's value? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 10 July , 2017 Share Posted 10 July , 2017 Hi TT, understood, but I think the rules are differently applied here on the continent? I realise the UK is not an option and I have no direct plans to sell, so it was more a theoretical musing. Maybe I should have said "If I wanted a realistic insurance value" All the best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 10 July , 2017 Share Posted 10 July , 2017 3 hours ago, trenchtrotter said: To sell or gift or swap it you would need to resubmit to a EU approved proof house and have further work done. The UK Proof Houses are just inspection bodies. You would need an RFD to re-do it to the new deactivation spec before submitting it to a Proof House. I'm not sure whether you'd specifically need a Section 5 RFD to re-do a Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 10 July , 2017 Share Posted 10 July , 2017 (edited) Are we talking at cross purposes here? Quoting EU and UK Proof rules etc, when it seems to me that Chris' gun in Canada? Can you confirm Chris, and is your theoretical musing about possibly selling it in Canada, or in Europe? Edited 10 July , 2017 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 10 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2017 My understanding is that the new rules I refer to are relevant for EU. If Chris is in USA or elsewhere I don't know the rules for there. Re RFD yes Peregrins is correct. Work done and proof inspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 10 July , 2017 Share Posted 10 July , 2017 Hi, I am on the continent at the Mo, but it has been my experiance that each country interprates these laws differently. Many European countries have no deac certificates as far as I know. In Germany most legal deacs don't even have a stamp on them. Only a portion have the BKA stamps on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1418 Posted 10 July , 2017 Share Posted 10 July , 2017 Hi all EU countries should be applying the same de-activation specification regardless of where you are. So the work currently undertaken in the U.K. Should be the same as say Germany of France If you want to bring any deactivated weapon into the U.K. It should have the relevant markings, certification and you will require an important license from the BIS regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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