ngarvie Posted 27 October , 2014 Share Posted 27 October , 2014 We will be visiting Northern France during the 2nd week in November, in the hope of discovering where my three great-uncles fell during the Somme campaign in 1916. Their bodies were not recovered. They were.. Pte Jack Wardlaw b 13/10/1896. No G/3126. 8th Battn. Queen’s Royal Surreys KIA 21/8/1916 Pte Walter Roy Stewart Wardlaw b June 1890. No 14994. 1st Battn Grenadier Guards KIA 14/9/1916 Pte Cuthbert Henry Wardlaw b 19/12/1898. No 4913A. 28th Battn, 24-26 reinforcements, AIF. KIA 16/11/1916. Another uncle was wounded but survived.... Alan Christopher Wardlaw b 24/12/1894. No 1602. D coy, 28th Battn AIF. Wounded 16/11/1916. Invalided back to UK. Another uncle possibly did not serve overseas, but we are unsure.. Pte (later Lt) David Christian Wardlaw b 1881. East Yorks Regiment. If any member has any idea on the area where they might lie, or the circumstances leading to their deaths, I would be greatly indebted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeesown Posted 27 October , 2014 Share Posted 27 October , 2014 Hi Welcome to the Forum.Jack and Walter. http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=1 Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 October , 2014 Share Posted 27 October , 2014 Pte (later Lt) David Christian Wardlaw b 1881. East Yorks Regiment. He served overseas with the regiment as a Lt sometime after 1 Jan 1916. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 27 October , 2014 Admin Share Posted 27 October , 2014 Jack Wardlaw was killed at Guillemont on the Somme he probably enlisted September 1914 and went overseas with the original main body of the 8th Bn. on the 31 August 1915. As you know he has no known grave and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial, which of course is a must see if visiting the Somme. The war diary has been transcribed and includes an operation order for the attack by the two Divisions, the 24th and 35th, with some fantastic detail. http://qrrarchive.websds.net/PDF/QW00819160812.pdf The home page for the diaries is http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/war_diaries/war_diaries_home.shtml Although not specifically related to this attack this earlier thread has some great maps and interpretation of the general area http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=154052 It's also amazing the Bn suffered 89 casualties that day and the following day received a draft of 74 men and subsequent drafts the following days ready to do it all again. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 27 October , 2014 Admin Share Posted 27 October , 2014 Until someone comes along with the war diary this is the history of the Grenadier Guards online https://archive.org/stream/grenadierguards02pons#page/114/mode/2up There was a major attack planned for the 15th September but prior to the attack there were efforts made 'to straighten the line' and a bombing party from the 1st Bn (who were not engaged in the coming attack) were detailed to attack a feature known as the 'Quadrilateral' and there were heavy losses on the 11th/12th p.113 -114. The account goes on that on the 14th the 1st Battalion marched from Carnoy to Trones Wood 'where the men spent the night huddled in shell holes'. The account goes on to describe the barrage and German counter barrage p117 et seq. Seems the Battalion was engaged as 'carrying parties' that day. As Walter's body was not recovered he was probably a victim of the shellfire described in the account. There were a number of 'Quadrilaterals' on the Somme this was on the south side of the Ginchy Telegraph Road. This invaluable site shows the area today http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/somme/guillemont.html which was quite close to where his brother in the Queen's fell. Once again there is a map of the vicinity on this thread http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43483 A google images search may be helpful, and finally you can download the war diary from TNA for a small fee http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351849 Ken Guess the Aussies will be waking up soon for the other two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngarvie Posted 28 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2014 Thanks everybody - a fantastic response, and almost instantaneous! Thanks Craig for the later information on David Christian Wardlaw - he served, according to Ancestry, in a cyclist battalion, so I had imagined that he was not posted overseas. His last surviving child (daughter) who I "discovered" last year, however had the impression that he served in France. DCW went on to become a deputy lord mayor of London. Thanks Ken for the wealth of information that you very kindly posted on Jack and Walter - those links look really useful. Will definitely check them out. We are staying in Combles, which seems on the map to be quite close to Guillemont. Regards to all - Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 28 October , 2014 Share Posted 28 October , 2014 28th Bn AIF. There is also a very good unit history by Neville Browning. War Diary - 32 x ORs KIA on 16/11/1916. http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/AWM4/23/45/ Official History: http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/first_world_war/AWMOHWW1/AIF/Vol3/ Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 28 October , 2014 Share Posted 28 October , 2014 I expect you have the AIF men's Service Papers? http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=8366209 http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=8366208 Interesting Allan is recorded as born in France. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngarvie Posted 28 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2014 Thanks Tim - yes, I had found the Service papers, but not the War diary and official history. Alan Christopher and his brother Jack were born in Paris - hence, presumably, the christian names which would double for either language. The parents (my mother's grand-parents) spent time there during the "belle époque", with the rest of the children placed in boarding schools in England. Then the money ran out, and the family lost cohesion. Many thanks again - Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 28 October , 2014 Share Posted 28 October , 2014 Hi Neil, Interesting stuff. Do you have David's papers? You can order from National Archives here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C741985 Rgds Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngarvie Posted 28 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2014 Thanks Tim - this is all really useful information. I have sent off for David's papers using your link. Regards - Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 28 October , 2014 Share Posted 28 October , 2014 Recharge your credit card. They are probably a pound a page! The other option is a researcher. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngarvie Posted 28 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2014 Crikey! - might be cheaper to visit the archives. I'll see what the estimate is. I've just been reading the AIF War diary for the action in which Cuthbert was killed and Alan wounded (many thanks Tim again for the link), and there is an odd coincidence here…. "At 4.30 PM enemy launched a heavy bombing attack on EAST YORKS on our left in GIRD trench and drove them in on us. Our left and centre companies attempted to counter-attack and resisted until forced to withdraw…" The centre company was "D" coy in which they served, and their older brother David - who they would not have seen since they emigrated to Australia- was with the East Yorks. I wonder if the three of them encountered each other on the battlefield! Regards - Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 29 October , 2014 Share Posted 29 October , 2014 Depends on David's battalion Neil. Service papers should confirm. I'll have a look at Medal Rolls later today to see if listed. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 29 October , 2014 Share Posted 29 October , 2014 Unfortunately no battalion listed with Medal Rolls mate. Not uncommon for officers. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngarvie Posted 29 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 29 October , 2014 Thanks Tim - I might take a trip to Kew and get a sight of his service papers. Thanks for all the info. Regards - Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Lloyd Posted 22 February , 2022 Share Posted 22 February , 2022 HI My name is Grahame Wardlaw Lloyd, I have been looking up my grandfathers (Alan Christopher Wardlaw) war records I already know about the Gallipoli record and the Somme but not all the detail also would very much like to make contact with living family in Australia, I understand that he came from a place called Dumbleyung? Western Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 22 February , 2022 Share Posted 22 February , 2022 (edited) Hi Graham, Welcome to the forum Your grandfather Alan Christopher Wardlaw, this photo from a public tree first published in 2017 by the original poster on here by member "nwgarvie". Your g/father was born in Paris and died in Anglesey, N.Wales, Full history on the public tree."https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/47773646/person/12812137361/facts". Regards Barry Edited 22 February , 2022 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Lloyd Posted 22 February , 2022 Share Posted 22 February , 2022 Yes that's him I lived with him on Anglesey for the last years of his life, I have very fond memories of him and the information about Gallipoli he gave me. Thanks you for this I will take a look at the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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