Uniform, Insignia, and Cap ID

[TheFonz]

The gentleman seated is my wife's great grandfather, Albert E. Eddison, who was in the Royal Army Medical Corps. To the right his one of his sons, Frederick G. Eddison, who, as far as I know, served with the Northumberland Fusiliers. Standing at the right is another son, Harold J. Eddison.

I was wondering what the insignia on Albert's sleeves indicate.

I was also wondering what is the uniform that Harold is wearing? The tunic looks the same as his brother's, but different cap. Although I have found records for Albert and Frederick, I have never found any World War I service records for Harold. Harold was born in 1901, so I guess it is possible that he could have served in the last year of the war, if a 17 year-old could enlist. After the family immigrated to Australia in 1921, Harold did join the RAAF in 1925 and stayed in its service until 1951. On the Australian records I've obtained for that service, there is no indication of service during World War I with the British.

[Blackblue]

Albert has RAMC cap badge, the usual RAMC arm patches. He also sports on left forearm a Good Conduct Chevron (2 years good conduct), a wound stripe (wounded once) and on right forearm what is probably a four overseas service chevrons 1915, 1916, 1917 and 1918). He may be wearing the ribbon of the 1914/15 Star (given he went to Gallipoli in 1915). I notice he has a very low number (151) indicating he may have been TF before the war?

Frederick is wearing a cap badge consistent with Northumberland Fusiliers and is wearing a Marksman's crossed rifles on his left forearm.

Unsure of Harold's cap badge, but he may have been a member of the Training Reserve if born in 1901. Training Reserve units were affiliated with infantry regiments. His cap badge is probably that of an infantry regiment, impossible to tell without a clearer picture I'm afraid. Do you have any other photos?

http://www.1914-1918.net/training_reserve.htm

Rgds

Tim D

[TheFonz]

Wow! Thank you. I'll have to ask my father-in-law if he remembers his grandfather saying anything about being wounded; I never heard about it before. Also, interesting about the marksman crossed rifles.

Albert must have been very patriotic. He was born in 1876, and was married with four sons well before the war began. He would not have been a prime draftee, especially at the beginning of the war. I wonder what compelled a 38 year-old barber from Leeds who was a family man to join. I'll have to maybe interview my father-in-law and see what he remembers of his grandfather.

[Blackblue]

I think you may find he was pre war territorial. The 42nd (East Lancashire) Division was at Gallipoli at the time Albert deployed, so perhaps he joined them as a reinforcement.

[Blackblue]

Was Harold's middle name Jowett? If so he served with the RAF, which might be consistent with the cap badge he is wearing.

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fair79%2f2635%2f00138&parentid=gbm%2fair79%2f194485

Prett

Rgds

Tim

Edit. Yes it is him (checked Australian records). Joined in October 1918 and served until 1923. He served as a Fitter.

[TheFonz]

It is Harold Jowett Eddison. While serving with the RAAF, he was sent to England and attached to the RAF for a period of time in 1939 just before the start of World War II. At least that is what I can gather from his service records from the Australian Archives. He was not a pilot but a aircraft engine mechanic.

[Blackblue]

See edit above mate. Definitely the same man. He joined in 1918 when 17 years old and discharged in 1923 before going to Australia. He was a Fitter. Service Record on Find My Past, link above.

[TheFonz]

Well, I'll be buggered. Blackblue, thank you so much.

I see you live in Canberra. I visited there at Easter time in 2003. Loved it.

[Blackblue]

No worries mate. It's my home base, but elsewhere at the moment.

Rgds

Tim

[Blackblue]

I should add he might be wearing this type of early RAF other ranks cap badge, not the brass version.

Rgds

Tim

[Graham Stewart]

69117 Pte Frederick Goldsmith Eddison, served with 'B' Company, 1/5th Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers - resided Leeds,Yorks and was conscripted around June/July 1917 and Discharged under Kings Regulations Para 329(xxviii). He was also recorded as Missing in Action on the 27th May 1918 and may have become a POW.

[Blackblue]

Nice one Graham. What's your source?

You can order Harold's WW2 service record here in case you haven't got it Brian.

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=30721407&isAv=N

I notice there was another Eddison family from Southampton (with same sort of interesting middle names) who lost three brothers in WW2, one RAF, one RAAF and one Australian Army.

Rgds

Tim D

[Graham Stewart]

Nice one Graham. What's your source?

You can order Harold's WW2 service record here in case you haven't got it Brian.

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=30721407&isAv=N

I notice there was another Eddison family from Southampton (with same sort of interesting middle names) who lost three brothers in WW2, one RAF, one RAAF and one Australian Army.

Rgds

Tim D

My database built up over the past sixteen years, using various references some not available to the general public.

[Andrew Upton]

As has already been touched upon, Harold is wearing the early 1918/1919 version of the RAF uniform - note the different cut of the uniform, particularly the flaps of the chest pockets and the way the belted section at the waist is formed.

[TheFonz]

Thank you gentlemen so much. I've learned more about their service in this one thread than I've learned over the last couple of years.

I remember my father-in-law telling me at one time that his Uncle Frederick was a POW but was not sure, and I was not able to find record of it. Thank you for confirming this. Also, thank you for narrowing down his unit to company level- that will greatly make it easier to research.

As far as the Southampton Eddisons, I don't know. My wife's line is Yorkshire back to at least 1750; having difficultly getting past that. I'm sure somewhere along the line there is a connection but don't know exactly what it is.

I'm out of town at the moment and doing this on my phone. Not as easy to type. I can't wait to get home tomorrow to record this new information.

[TheFonz]

I was able to find record of Frederick's POW status on the ICRC website. Can't believe what I'm finding out. Even though they are not my blood relatives, they are to my children and want them to know all of this so they can be proud of their ancestors.

[Blackblue]

Well done mate,

Was about to be my next suggestion.

The Medal Rolls might give some additional information (such as other battalions). If you branch out on the Australian connections let me know.

Rgds

Tim D

[TheFonz]

I have copies of their medal index cards, which I was able to interpret with the help of some guides online. Unfortunately, the rest of of their records burned up, thanks to Herr Goering. Sometime back I had the Australian Archives digitize Harold's RAAF records and have a copy saved on the computer, although it can be difficult to read sometimes, at least for my eyes.

Now that I know Frederick's battalion, I can try and research the Northumberland Fusilier diaries. Any suggestions on how to find out what particular medical unit(s) Albert was with?

This is Albert working at a hospital I suspect somewhere in France. He is seated to the right in white. The uniforms of the men look German to me but I could be wrong. Interesting photo nonetheless.

[Blackblue]

If you need a hand with interpretation let us know.

You are unlikely to find what unit Albert was with unless you find him mentioned somewhere in diaries or the like. Corps such as RAMC, RA and RE do not usually record units in the Medal Rolls. Perhaps start looking at some of the Lancashire raised territorial RAMC units. It is possible his number is territorial given it is a low number. I am sure there a some RAMC experts about on the forum who might be able to help.

If Albert served with a Field Ambulance at Gallipoli it is possible he served with the 42nd (East Lancashire) Division which was territorial. I understand the were also a variety of medical establishments on Lemnos, Imbros and Mudros as well as the hospital ships he may have served on. Coincidentally he arrived there the day before my Grandfather.

A good overview of the RAMC here, including hospitals.

http://www.1914-1918.net/ramc.htm

Great photo. The men pictured are likely British and are wearing what is known as Hospital Blues. Some more here in this thread:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=179950

Rgds

Tim D

[MBrockway]

Yep - definitely Hospital Blues

[Graham Stewart]

Well done mate,

Was about to be my next suggestion.

The Medal Rolls might give some additional information (such as other battalions). If you branch out on the Australian connections let me know.

Rgds

Tim D

Sadly no further information on the Medal Rolls for Frederick - I've already covered this one on my DB, so apart from his overseas service with the 1/5th Bn,N.F., we have no clues as to which training units he served with whilst at home.

[jay dubaya]

There is a 408104 Albert E Eddison, Reg Barber, C Inf Base Depot on the Leeds AVL, interestingly the six digit TF number was allocated to the 2nd Northern General Hospital which I believe was a TF hospital on Becketts Park, Headingley, Leeds, which I suspect is where the above photograph was taken, although I cannot say why no six digit number appears on Alberts MIC but perhaps just a clerical omission.

Jon

Edit: there is a book "Stories from the War Hospital" which is all about Becketts Park military hospital

[Blackblue]

Nice pick up Jon!

Got to be him. Lets have a look at the numbers either side and see if there are some 3 digits or Silver War Badges. Not uncommon for them to miss old or new TF numbers in the MICs.

C Infantry Base Depot was a Rouen, so it looks like he was there around the end of the war.

I wonder if Reg Barber means Regimental Barber...or Regular Barber? Was barber in larger establishments an RAMC responsibility?

Rgds

Tim D

[TheFonz]

Awesome info. Albert's full name was Albert Edward Eddison. He was born in Leeds on Nov. 10, 1876, baptized on Feb. 16, 1880, and married Alice Maud Cutts on Jan. 20, 1899. According to the 1910 tax role, his occupation was "gent's hairdresser" and his shop was located at 135-A Camp Street in Leeds.

[Blackblue]

As far as Medal Index Cards, Silver War Badge records and Service Papers go...bingo!

A few of these men have reference to their original numbers, with Albert's falling nicely in line with the 408104 found by Jon, so we can confirm this is his new territorial number. Enlistment dates for the 15? series appear to be April 1915 indicating Albert was not a pre war enlistment and joined in April 15 as territorial RAMC in Leeds. It appears the 2nd Northern General Hospital had their own unique set of numbers prior to the territorial renumbering to six digits in early 1917. It also appears this was his original unit and acted as a training/holding unit for RAMC men from Leeds. You will note a large spread of numbers, far more men than would usually be required to man a hospital in the UK. You will also note quite a number of men returned to 2nd Northern General Hospital as their parent unit after going overseas on active service.

408103 Herbert Hannam. Silver War Badge card. Enlisted 26/04/15. Unit 2nd Northern General Hospital. There is a second card for him with his medals under number 150. Entitled to 14/15 Star, BWM and VM with entry dated 14/11/15, theatre is down as HS (meaning he embarked serving on a Hospital Ship). The numbers falls in line with Albert's number 151.

408099 Wilfred Chappell has the previous RAMC number 146. Entitled to 14/15 Star, BWM and VM with entry dated 11/09/15 Gallipoli, the same date as Alfred. Again numbers fall in line with Alfred's.

408046 James Clay. Enlisted 12/08/14. Original number 83. Gallipoli 12/09/15. 33rd Field Ambulance 12/09/15 (11th Division). 89th Field Ambulance 09/10/15 (29th Division). France 27/03/16. KIA 20/05/17 unit 2nd Northern General Hospital attached 89th Field Ambulance. From Leeds.

Unfortunately so far only 6 of the men in the 408??? series whom I have found documents for have active service units listed. 2 initially served on hospital ships (HS entry code on MIC) but 3 of the 6 men served with the 89th Field Ambulance, making this a possible unit that Albert joined at Gallipoli. The 6th man served with 139th Field Ambulance but only joined them post 31/12/15 after Gallipoli. 89th Field Ambulance were attached to the 29th Division. You will also note that Clay was originally attached to the 33rd Field Ambulance, part of the 11th Division who were also at Gallipoli. The 11th was being heavily reinforced at this time due to losses sustained during the landings at Suvla. The 29th had also lost heavily at Helles in the months previous.

I have cobbled the following together from the Medal Index Cards, Silver War Badge Records, Service and Pension Records, Soldiers Died n the Great War and Commonwealth War Graves. It makes an interesting study and gives some good pointers to Albert's service.

408003 Lawrence Cook. Enlisted 22/06/14. Died at Home 20/09/18. 2nd Northern General Hospital. No overseas service. From Leeds.

408011 Arthur Sheard. Enlisted 10/08/14. Original number 20. Died at Home 16/04/19. 2nd Northern General Hospital. No overseas service. From Leeds.

408046 James Clay. Enlisted 12/08/14. Original number 83. Gallipoli 12/09/15. 33rd and 89th Field Ambulance. Original unit 2nd Northern General Hospital.

408084 Fred Taylor. Original number 126. Gallipoli 12/09/15. KIA 24/04/17 with 89th Field Ambulance. Buried next to Stancliffe. From Leeds.

408090 Frank H Wood. Enlisted 22/05/15. Overseas service after 31/12/15. Unit on discharge 2nd Northern General Hospital.

408093 Harold Haldenby. Enlisted 22/04/15. Overseas service after 31/12/15. Unit on discharge 2nd Northern General Hospital.

408094 Arthur Rowe. Enlisted 22/04/15.Overseas service after 31/12/15. Unit unknown.

408096 Fred Smith. Enlisted 22/04/15. Overseas service after 31/12/15. Unit unknown.

408098 Henry Baldwin Lee. Enlisted 26/04/15. No overseas service. Unit unknown.

408099 Wilfred Chappell. Original number 146. Gallipoli 11/09/15. Unit unknown.

408103 Herbert Hannam. Enlisted 26/04/15. Original number 150. Overseas 14/11/15. Unit on discharge 2nd Northern General Hospital.

408106 Charles Herbert Davey. Enlisted 27/04/15. No overseas service. Unit unknown.

408116 Peter Day. Enlisted 12/05/15. Overseas service after 31/12/15. Unit unknown.

408141 James Samuel Jennings. Died at Home 29/08/17. West Riding Casualty Clearing Station. No overseas service. From Leeds.

408165 Henry Kellett. Died at Home 16/03/17. No overseas service. Unit unknown. From Leyland/Southport.

408197 Philip Esson Wilson. Died at Home 20/03/1921. Overseas service after 31/12/15. Unit unknown. From Leeds.

408216 Robert Willie Livock. KIA 31/07/17. 139th Field Ambulance. Overseas service after 31/12/15. From Leeds.

408220 Charles Stancliffe. Original number 416. Gallipoli 12/09/15. KIA France 24/04/17 with 89th Field Ambulance. From Leeds. Buried next to Taylor.

408233 Edwin Jones. Died at Home 13/12/18. 2nd Northern General Hospital. No overseas service. From Leeds.

408272 William Hancock Selby. Died at Home 03/08/18. 2nd Northern General Hospital. No overseas service. From Leeds.

408307 Walter Johnson. Original number 1726. Enlisted 03/06/12. Embodied 05/08/14. HMHS Essequibo 14/11/15. Died at Home 13/05/18. 2nd Northern General Hospital. Leeds.

408325 George Andrew Clarkson. Died at Home 30/04/17. No overseas service. Unit unknown. Leeds.

Rgds

Tim D