shotgun question

[Michael Haselgrove]

In case it helps, I have had a look at Beneath Flanders Fields - The Tunnellers' War 1914 - 18 by Peter Barton and others. At page 137 the authors write:

"Which weapon to use was left to personal preference. Officers carried a Webley service revolver, or another model of their own choice, such as Captain Sawers' small automatic, but others favoured specially devised alternatives. At the Bluff Canadian listeners armed themselves with sawn off .303 Lee Enfield rifles, whilst at Railway Wood, one officer produced a wooden club....".

The authors quote from the diary of Major Stokes and provide a sketch from that diary the caption for which reads:

"Major R.S.G. Stokes' sketch of a cut-down .303 Lee Enfield Rifle, the weapon of choice of some of the tunnellers in the Bluff workings".

Regards,

Michael.

[dman]

Not officially. Sawn off SMLEs were used in some trench fighting and its possible that the odd sawn off shotgun found its way onto raids. At sea large bore fowling pieces (shot guns) had a long tradition of being useful in dealing with boarders (mainly pirates) and the like. Defoe mentions this in a number of his books

Supposedly British and French explored possibility of using shotguns to clear out a trench

Problem was the type of shotgun were used to was double barrel models - after 2 quick shots would then have to reload

US shotguns were of the pump (slide) type not known in Europe, could deliver 6 quick shots in under 3 seconds, then br quickly reloaded by thumbing

rounds into under barrel magazine. Other advantage was that partial filled magazine could be easily "topped" up

One wonders if German objections were that if was "unfair" that US Army would use such weapons against them

[Smellieguy]

The myth of the shotgun shells loaded with fragments pops up from time to time at the gun shows here..one dealer had a box of WW1 era shells about a year ago and claimed that's what they were. I told him US armorers must have been replacing barrels left and right.

I've had many Winchester '97s.....awesome weapon.

[Mitter2k1]

The US also employed the Winchester 1911 "widowmaker" shotgun. It got the name widowmaker from the knurled section on the barrel that was used for grip to cycle the action of the gun. I am not entirely sure it made its way overseas, but there are a few photos showing it being used by US soldiers. As far as the use of unconventional types of ammo, I would say that it is unlikely. But soldiers have been known to improvise and modify a number of things.

Here is a photo I borrowed of the 1911 shotgun in use by a couple of soldiers in the Signal Corps.

[chrislock]

I guess combat shotguns have come along way since then.......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNPGvPa9NeQ

Enjoy!!

[dman]

I want one of those for Christmas!!!

Santa are you listerning???? Been real good (well maybe not so good....)

[dman]

The US also employed the Winchester 1911 "widowmaker" shotgun. It got the name widowmaker from the knurled section on the barrel that was used for grip to cycle the action of the gun. I am not entirely sure it made its way overseas, but there are a few photos showing it being used by US soldiers. As far as the use of unconventional types of ammo, I would say that it is unlikely. But soldiers have been known to improvise and modify a number of things.

Here is a photo I borrowed of the 1911 shotgun in use by a couple of soldiers in the Signal Corps.

widow.jpg

Got name "widowmaker" from people trying to clear jammed round - shotgun shells of that time were made of cardboard and would swell up

if got wet sticking in chamber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1911

The novel method of charging the 1911 could be potentially lethal if done incorrectly. Shotgun cartridges of the time were often made of paper, which could make the cartridge body vulnerable to expansion when exposed to moisture in large quantities. If this happened in the 1911, the barrel would have to be cycled in order to open the chamber so that the swelled shotgun shell could be removed. Some users mistakenly cycled the barrel by placing the butt of the weapon against the ground and forcing the barrel down. In this position, the muzzle of the weapon would be pointing towards the face of the user, and the swelled shell could fire, injuring or killing the user. This safety issue led to the Model 1911 being nicknamed "the Widowmaker" This situation could be avoided with adherence to safety procedures common to handling firearms, in particular, the practice of keeping the weapon pointed in a safe direction at all times.

The potential for slam fire when clearing jams was not the only flaw in the 1911's design. The system of buffer rings used to reduce the recoil (two fiber washers^[ when the weapon was fired often failed. The breakdown of these rings greatly increased the recoil when a round was fired. The gun's "hammering recoil" caused many a stock to split.

The sales of the "mechanically ill-fated" weapon lagged significantly behind those of Remington's and Browning's autoloaders,^[3] and Winchester ceased its production in 1925, after producing almost 83,000 of them.^[2] As recently as 2005, four people accidentally shot themselves with the 1911 while loading or clearing the weapon

1911 was not too reliable (compared to Browning A5 and Remington Model 11 (which was license copy of Browning))

Picture here shows rear area troops equipped with Winchester 1911.