tjcasey14 Posted 10 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 10 August , 2014 Tealady...the curator thought French because of the number ones as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 10 August , 2014 Share Posted 10 August , 2014 TJ, But as AFM is Belgian ... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 August , 2014 Share Posted 12 August , 2014 And so, the conclusion on AFM is? See also: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=216090&st=0&p=2137449 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjcasey14 Posted 14 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 14 August , 2014 TJ, Read the link you posted....your right....it's confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 14 August , 2014 Share Posted 14 August , 2014 TDR! But I think Aurel is on the ball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 14 August , 2014 Share Posted 14 August , 2014 But ... Aurel doesn't know what to think anymore ! (See other topic) Belgian or French ? A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 15 August , 2014 Share Posted 15 August , 2014 Dear All, In my opinion it may be an American made cartridge. Attached is a photo of the base of a complete but unfilled round. It has a plaque on the side that reads " 75MM HIGH EXPLOSIVE SHELL made by AMERICAN CAN COMPANY presented with its compliments". The shell and cartridge were never filled hence the lack of any markings. Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjcasey14 Posted 22 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 22 August , 2014 Michael, Thats an interesting thought...... No markings on the side, but the bottom looks identical. Would they have shipped it overseas and then France or Belgium put their markings on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 25 August , 2014 Share Posted 25 August , 2014 Hi tjcasey14, The shell in question was presented by the manufacturer as a gift. In my opinion, the base of the cartridge has no markings as it was never filled. The fuze, made by another company, is marked. I attach a couple of photographs, one of the fuze and the other of the small plaque fitted to the side of the cartridge, in case they are of interest. Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjcasey14 Posted 30 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 30 August , 2014 Michael, Do you have any idea what AFM stands for on the base of mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 31 August , 2014 Share Posted 31 August , 2014 Michael, Does my suggestion in posting # 21 stand a chance ? (Though "Militaire" maybe should be : "de Munition") Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 September , 2014 Share Posted 1 September , 2014 Michael, Does my suggestion in posting # 21 stand a chance ? (Though "Militaire" maybe should be : "de Munition") Aurel I have to admit that I am rather more tempted by the AFM being a French language mark, although the 'Lot' is suspiciously 'American'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 1 September , 2014 Share Posted 1 September , 2014 I'm afraid I don't presently know what AFM stands for but will have another look when time permits. In the meantime, I do not believe that France or Belgium marked ammunition with LOT numbers. Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 September , 2014 Share Posted 1 September , 2014 Hi Michael, Just on the off-chance, is there such a thing as a 'standard reference work' on shells used in WW1? It seems amazing to me that there are books on WW1 uniforms, guns, bayonets, even SRD jugs, but nowt on the shells (and especially the marking thereof!) Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 1 September , 2014 Share Posted 1 September , 2014 Re. post # 39, yes I second that. With the veritable abundance of surviving cartridge cases, (bought another 18 pounder yesterday!), it seems odd that there is not a standard reference work on the makers and markings, a definite gap in the market! Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 1 September , 2014 Share Posted 1 September , 2014 Normally you will find that three primer key slots are German and that the two primer key slots are British. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 2 September , 2014 Share Posted 2 September , 2014 Hi Julian, Well, for German shells your best bet is Notes on German Shells 1918. For British Treatise on Ammunition, 1915. Both are available from The Naval & Military Press. There is also British Artillery Weapons and Ammunition 1914-1918 by Hogg and Thurston. I also have a book High Explosive Shell Manufacture published in 1916 by The Industrial Press which covers manufacturing by the American, British, French and Russian Governments. For the rest, I rely on photocopies of documents, articles, etc. Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arboskittler Posted 2 September , 2014 Share Posted 2 September , 2014 Could that be a 'broad arrow' marking on the 1916 one? (around 7 or 8 o'clock in the picture) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 September , 2014 Share Posted 3 September , 2014 Hi Julian, Well, for German shells your best bet is Notes on German Shells 1918. For British Treatise on Ammunition, 1915. Both are available from The Naval & Military Press. There is also British Artillery Weapons and Ammunition 1914-1918 by Hogg and Thurston. I also have a book High Explosive Shell Manufacture published in 1916 by The Industrial Press which covers manufacturing by the American, British, French and Russian Governments. For the rest, I rely on photocopies of documents, articles, etc. Regards, Michael. Cheers Michael! I'll look those books up and try to get copies just in case I happen to see any other nice examples that I can convince my wife will serve as decorative items... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjcasey14 Posted 11 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 September , 2014 Thanks Michael, I will look those references up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 11 September , 2014 Share Posted 11 September , 2014 Just to say that I still think AFM is Belgian (Ateliers (belges) de Fabrication de Munition. Though near Le Havre (Graville (Sainte Honorine) and / or (later) Gainneville. Whether the cartridge itself is Belgian ... ? But see : http://www.passionmilitaria.com/t51737-identification-marquage-d-une-douille Willy Breton, Les Etablissements d'Artillerie Belges Pendant La Guerre, 1917, may provide the answer. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 September , 2014 Share Posted 11 September , 2014 Just to say that I still think AFM is Belgian (Ateliers (belges) de Fabrication de Munition. Though near Le Havre (Graville (Sainte Honorine) and / or (later) Gainneville. Whether the cartridge itself is Belgian ... ? But see : http://www.passionmilitaria.com/t51737-identification-marquage-d-une-douille Willy Breton, Les Etablissements d'Artillerie Belges Pendant La Guerre, 1917, may provide the answer. Aurel Thanks Aurel. Took me a couple of minutes to enter where one reads (in reply to an identification question): "Douille belge,AFM=Ateliers de Fabrication de Munition. pendant la première guerre délocalisé a Le Havre/Gainneville. Trouve sur le net, une douille avec les marquages similaires sauf "Lot 20T",identifié comme douille de 75." Which I would translate as: "Belgian shell cartridge case AFM = Ateliers de Fabrication de Munition. During the First World War this was relocated to Le Havre / Gainneville. Found on the net is a shell cartridge with similar markings except that it is marked "Lot 20T", for a 75 [mm] shell". Unfortunately no reference is given.... So guess it means tracking down a copy of Willy Breton, Les Etablissements d'Artillerie Belges Pendant La Guerre, 1917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjcasey14 Posted 15 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 September , 2014 Aurel, The cartridge in the link you provided looks a lot like the one I have. Including the Shape of the number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Finneran Posted 29 October , 2014 Share Posted 29 October , 2014 [/url]">[/url] Nice topical image! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 April , 2019 Share Posted 21 April , 2019 On 02/09/2014 at 13:18, Michael Haselgrove said: Hi Julian, Well, for German shells your best bet is Notes on German Shells 1918. For British Treatise on Ammunition, 1915. Both are available from The Naval & Military Press. There is also British Artillery Weapons and Ammunition 1914-1918 by Hogg and Thurston. I also have a book High Explosive Shell Manufacture published in 1916 by The Industrial Press which covers manufacturing by the American, British, French and Russian Governments. For the rest, I rely on photocopies of documents, articles, etc. Regards, Michael. Thanks again Michael, There is now a PDF copy of Notes on German Shells on line at: http://bulletpicker.com/pdf/Notes on German Shells.pdf Stumbled upon as is often the case with these things! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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