Coal Miners - Reserved Occupation?

[Shiny]

Hi All,

I'm trying to find out why a 29 year old would not have joined up at all during WW1.

He worked as a coal miner so I had always assumed it would have been a reserved occupation and that was why but having read some other threads on here I'm now thinking there wasn't really any such thing.

Then I found a reference to a document on TNA which seems to list reserved occupations so I'm now totally confused.

If the colliery owners applied for an exemption is there likely to be a record anywhere?

I'm also thinking because of the pressures at the time, white feathers etc it may be mentioned in the local press, does that sound plausible?

I know he didn't serve during WW2 either (he was an ARP warden though) but I suppose that may have been down to his age by then (or maybe there was a medical reason that exempted him both times).

Any help would be appreciated.

Michael

[rolt968]

If he worked underground and the colliery owner applied for an exemption it was very likely to be granted. There were a number of occupations where there were age and marital status conditions for exemptions, i.e. must be over a particular age for an exemption, the age in some cases being lower if the man was married. There were no such conditions for underground colliery workers.

In WW2 Bevan Boys were actually conscripted to work in the mines. Perhaps to be slightly more accurate a number of conscripted men were channelled to work in the mines.

[centurion]

At the beginning of the war significant numbers of miners enlisted so much so that it created a shortage of men in the pits when demand for coal was rising because of the needs of the war. Not all who put them selves forward would be accepted, mining is a tough job but there were certain conditions that would not stop a man working in the pit but which could cause the army to reject him these included flat feet (fallen arches) as they would limit his ability to march distances, poor teeth as he couldn't eat the emergency rations and eyesight problems as he couldn't aim a rifle.. Later in the war these might not be a bar as a man could be enlisted in a lower fitness category so flat footers might be used for garrison duties, the gnasherless could be fitted with dentures and the poor sighted with army issue glasses. However by this time conscription was in place and as has been stated above exemptions were provided for colliers some of whom were never called up.

[Hollytree]

My grandfather was a coalminer in the Rhondda and never served, because of his health as much as anything. But my mother always said that he worked underground in a similar fashion to WW2 Bevan boys....

Anne

[dink_and_pip]

My great uncle was a collier in the Rhondda at the start of the war but being ex SOMLI and still on the reserve list was called up. But because of his health only saw home service. Also he rejoined his old regiment but was immediately transferred to the Devonshire regiment. (There's another thread on this topic)

Andy

[kenf48]

On 27/06/2014 at 20:37, Shiny said:

Hi All,

I'm trying to find out why a 29 year old would not have joined up at all during WW1.

He worked as a coal miner so I had always assumed it would have been a reserved occupation and that was why but having read some other threads on here I'm now thinking there wasn't really any such thing.

Then I found a reference to a document on TNA which seems to list reserved occupations so I'm now totally confused.

If the colliery owners applied for an exemption is there likely to be a record anywhere?

I'm also thinking because of the pressures at the time, white feathers etc it may be mentioned in the local press, does that sound plausible?

Michael

I think your confusion may be because of the desire for accuracy (or pedantry depending how you look at it) on the forum. 'Reserved occupation' was not a term used in WW1, or specifically within the Military Service Act 1916. Post 3 has explained the situation as far as volunteers prior to the introduction of the Act with the proviso that those seeking to volunteer when the shortages became apparent needed permission to do so. Those miners and other workers who had previously enlisted voluntarily were excluded from the terms of the Act.

In addition to the Act the Government produced a number of extracts and references (what today we might call guidance notes) these included a list of 'certified occupations'.

A number of these pamphlets including the list of certified occupation can be downloaded for free from TNA

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details/AddtoBasket?iaid=C14091004

The term 'certified occupation' replaced previous recognition of trades that were 'starred', 'badged' or 'reserved' (yes I know it's confusing but in spite of the pedants there is evidence the term was in use prior to the Act!) and these by 1915 included coal mining.

The list available from the TNA describes 'a general reservation' for all classes of men working underground in coal mines and for those working above ground in skilled jobs. Exemptions within the mining industry for those workers who did not qualify for a 'general reservation' were considered by special Colliery Recruiting Courts as discussed on this previous thread

 

Assuming he was working underground there may have been a record at the time retained locally but I don't know of any that have survived (which doesn't mean there aren't any!). While the local press often reported the deliberations of local Tribunals these reports would have been for men seeking exemption who did not work in the coal mining industry.

Ken

[tharkin56]

The men from Bedworth and local collieries joined the Engineers from the pits and ended up with the Tunnelling Coy, there experience was invaluable a few were awarded DCM for rescuing wounded men, preventing accidents etc

[ss002d6252]

'Reserved occupation' was not a term used in WW1, or specifically within the Military Service Act 1916

It was used at the time by the 'Committee on Reserved Occupations' in late 1915.

Craig

[Terry_Reeves]

The term "reserved occupation" is also used almost as a matter of course in many Ministry of Munitions Documents.

TR

[centurion]

The term "reserved occupation" is also used almost as a matter of course in many Ministry of Munitions Documents.

TR

Notwithstanding the official designation was "scheduled occupation" and a list headed such was given to the Times for promulgation in 1915. The phrase reserved occupation was a common usage but not legal (ie covered in legislation) terminology until WW2

[Terry_Reeves]

Centurion,

Stop being tedious, take a look at post Number 8.

TR

[Shiny]

Thanks everyone for the comments it's starting to make sense.

Centurion, you mention poor eyesight, was that a genuine reason or just something you have used to illustrate your point as he did wear glasses.

Ken, your post in regards to the skilled workers may well explain things. From the photos I have he doesn't strike me as someone who would have worked at the coal face, I think it much more likely that he worked above ground.

Thanks again for all the help

Edited 27 June , 2014 by Shiny

[kenf48]

What's really tedious is the use of selective quotes.

What was posted in post 8 is an example of the usage of the term in 1915, which no-one is arguing about, prior to the introduction of the Military Service Act. In taking the statement out of context It might have been polite to include

'The term 'certified occupation' replaced previous recognition of trades that were 'starred', 'badged' or 'reserved'

From the Derby Scheme on enlistment was controlled by bodies such as the Reserved Occupation Committee, advisory boards etc but as far as the coal mining industry is concerned all classes of underground workers were exempt from military service under both the Derby Scheme, [scheduled Trade List B] and the Military Service Act. Examples of the type of worker above ground who were exempt were colliery fitter and mechanic, electrician, pump man, weigh man and winding engine man.

[incidentally Scheduled Trades List D was List of Occupations (Reserved Occupations) of Cardinal Importance etc ]

The 1911 Census may define his trade within the industry.

Ken

[centurion]

Thanks everyone for the comments it's starting to make sense.

Centurion, you mention poor eyesight, was that a genuine reason or just something you have used to illustrate your point as he did wear glasses.

Ken, your post in regards to the skilled workers may well explain things. From the photos I have he doesn't strike me as someone who would have worked at the coal face, I think it much more likely that he worked above ground.

Thanks again for all the help

A genuine reason. In the specifications for different classes of fitness you will see eyesight included. By 1918 more men with glasses did reach the front but it was still quite usual for those that were called up to be used in clerical work etc behind the lines or at home, releasing men with better sight for combat service. There have been some threads on this subject.

[Uncle George]

I posted today in the wrong place ('Other') about my Great Uncle, under the heading 'Reserved Occupation.' Had I seen this thread earlier I would have posted it here. It includes information about a card issued by the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty to those in Reserved Occupations.

[centurion]

From Hansard Dec 1915

HC Deb 20 December 1915 vol 77 cc46-8W 46W

Sir HERBERT ROBERTS asked the Under-Secretary for War whether he is aware that a number of starred coal miners have attested under the impression that it was necessary for them to do so in order to obtain the benefit of Lord Derby's scheme; and whether he can give an assurance that the attestation of such men under these circumstances will not affect the conditions of their liability for military service?

Mr. TENNANT A coal miner who has been attested for Army Reserve, Section B, 47W will, if he belongs to any of the classes of colliery workers directed to be starred, whether he has in fact been starred or not, have a mark placed against his name in the Army Register and will not be called up for military service unless the Home Office are of opinion that it is no longer necessary to retain him in civil employment.

Not all colliery workers were starred and if the man in the OP was say an above ground clerical worker there is a good chance that it was his glasses (eyesight) that kept him out of the army

[DB1]

My Granddad was a miner and attested with the TF in October 1914, however my Grand uncle also a miner never appears to have served in any of the forces. Some vital info I did find out though when I revisited the 1911 census when someone that didn't know what they were talking about re underground and above ground workers suggested something in relation to my Granddad, is that the 1911 census has codes written on it which denote if a man worked above or below ground. In some cases it is pretty obvious that they were underground if you have some background knowledge. In the case of my Granddad the census says Colliery horse driver. The numerical code at the side of this will denote if this was above or below ground - search for 1911 census codes on google-.

Other clues can be marriage certificates, my Granddad's stated Miner as his occupation despite this being in 1918 while he was still serving with the Army. Also look for death certificates as these will say what their occupation was post war, if they survived. My Grandads said Deputy / Shotfirer. This tells me that he must have been a coal face worker at some point before he progressed to be a Deputy. Guess it was personal choice to stay down the pit or not in the early part of the war.

[Shiny]

Sounds good to me. I'll have to dig my file out and have a look at the print I have from the census. Thanks for the information.

Michael

[DB1]

If you struggle pm me and I'll have a look at the census and code.

[Shiny]

Thanks very much, I'm away on holiday at the moment, but I'll look as soon as I get home.

Thanks again,

Michael

[Shiny]

I've finally got myself sorted and dug out the census entry for George. I've found two of them, the 1911 which is the main one I'm interested in shows quite clearly that he was working underground.

I also have the 1901 census which shows as a 15 year old he was also working underground, but I can't make out the job titles on either of them.

If you could help me out with the code that would be great.

Thanks a lot,

Michael

Edit: Sorry the upload has messed this about a bit. The top image is the 1911 entry where he was 25 years old. The bottom image is the earlier one.

[ss002d6252]

I read it that he was a coal hewer in 1911 and a driver? in 1901.

Craig

[Shiny]

Thanks Craig,

I've just googled the 150 code which says: Coal and Shale Mine - Workers at the Face

I had read the hewer the same as you but couldn't make out the other word at all. I take it in 1901 a driver would be someone who leads pit ponies so a 15 year old could do that presumably.

Michael

[ss002d6252]

I had read the hewer the same as you but couldn't make out the other word at all. I take it in 1901 a driver would be someone who leads pit ponies so a 15 year old could do that presumably.

That's what I would think.

http://www.dmm.org.uk/educate/mineocc.htm#d

Craig

[DB1]

Pleased you have the info you needed. Here is another link that may give you some more background info as from the census you should be able to tell the area he worked in and therefore within reason which pit he will have worked at.

http://www.healeyhero.co.uk/rescue/menu/pits.htm#top

Also from the above site, confirms Craig's post.

Driver - The person in charge of a pit pony. Also known as Rolley, Horse or Waggon Driver

interesting site and well worth a look

Dave