Can we identify 'Tim'?

[Blackblue]

You can actually isolate the Middlsex Rolls and browse:

http://interactive.ancestry.com.au/1686/31794_221479-00564?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.Ancestry.com.au%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dcampaignmedalrolls%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dMIL_AWARDS%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln_x%3dXO%26gskw%3dmiddlesex%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26uidh%3dtg7%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

There are 638 men with a T initial.

http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?MS_AdvCB=1&db=CampaignMedalRolls&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=2&pcat=MIL_AWARDS&gss=ms_r_db&gsfn=T&gsfn_x=XO&gsln_x=XO&gskw=middlesex&gskw_x=1&dbOnly=_F0005C4A%7C_F0005C4A_x&dbOnly=_F0005C50%7C_F0005C50_x&dbOnly=_F00057CC%7C_F00057CC_x&uidh=tg7

Rgds

Tim D

[Genes Project]

The Medal Rolls for Middlesex in South Africa are on Ancestry. There and only letters recorded for first names. With one Bar for KSA if probably finished his service in 1901? I have had a troll through and it will be a big job!

Rgds

Tim D

This critter? http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C3764103

Another freebie to enjoy.

Hey, thanks again! One thing I just picked up that the vast majority of KSAs were issued with two (1901 and 1902) bars and this photo shows him only with one bar. Possibly only 11 in the Middlesex. I've downloaded the full roll from TNA and also poked around Ancestry and I think I found all eleven. Problem is he's got too few bars on his QSA for any of them!

I suppose he could have left the army after 1901 and then re-enlisted (which would give him a later number)? Not sure how this would affect his LSGC entitlement though. But it does mean that he might have fought the Boer War with another regiment? Oh well, I think I'm going to put all the 1911 2 Middlesex NCO names into Ancestry etc and see if I can get the QSA/KSA/LSGC records to match any of them.

[Genes Project]

As an update, nobody matches the 'single bar' KSA scenario - and unfortunately nobody off that 1911 census book matches the 'six bar' QSA scenario either (all 3,5 or 8 bar guys) although I did get it down to a shortlist of six soldiers. Maybe he didn't get his full complement and was really an eight-bar guy?

[Blackblue]

I keep looking at this and suspect its 6 and 2. Is it worth looking at those with 6+? Is there a LSGC Roll as surely there can't be many on that who match?

[Sepoy]

Andrew is correct, the bars on the QSA and KSA appear to be very thick and I suspect that the we are looking at a 6 bar QSA and a 2 bar QSA, plus a trick of the light.

As this photograph was taken just prior to the start of the Great War, what is to have stopped this NCO from transferring into the Middlesex Regiment after earning the QSA and KSA with another Regiment?

I personally think it will be extremely difficult to identify him, however, I do have a photograph album covering the Middlesex Regiment in China during the pre WW1 period, some of which are named. Accordingly, when I get a chance I will have a look to see if I can spot the NCO.

Sepoy

[Genes Project]

I agree with Andrew it's an illusion. The bars on the KSA are the same size and in this photo the bar is just as thick. If you look carefully you can see lines in the middle of each thick 'bar'. As I said before I don't think the KSA was issued by itself. To get the KSA you must also have the QSA.

Rods

Tim D

Here's a blow-up of that bit of the image (as given to me)...

I've asked the owner if he can do a very high res scan of just that area to have another look.

Cheers, Colin

[Genes Project]

Andrew is correct, the bars on the QSA and KSA appear to be very thick and I suspect that the we are looking at a 6 bar QSA and a 2 bar QSA, plus a trick of the light.

As this photograph was taken just prior to the start of the Great War, what is to have stopped this NCO from transferring into the Middlesex Regiment after earning the QSA and KSA with another Regiment?

I personally think it will be extremely difficult to identify him, however, I do have a photograph album covering the Middlesex Regiment in China during the pre WW1 period, some of which are named. Accordingly, when I get a chance I will have a look to see if I can spot the NCO.

Sepoy

Thanks for the offer Sepoy. I think the 2nd never served in China though - they were at home after the Boer War and then went to Malta in 1913 (after 'my' weddings) from where they were recalled and packed off to France.

My technique, such as it is, is to check every NCO and private in the 1911 census for the LSGC medal (in the free search on the militaryarchive site) to narrow it down. Then to check this list for the QSA/KSA pair on Ancestryand then record the QSA bars for the ones with the KSA.

But as you say, there might be a man who was on leave in 1911, or who transferred in to C Company between 1911 and 1913. Or who was in a totally different Middlesex battalion and was just close to them. A total needle in a haystack search when he was not in the initial sort.

Cheers,

Colin

[Sepoy]

This chap looks very similar - he is listed as a Private Hobbs, 3rd Battalion, Middlesex Regiment (even the ear shape is similar), I believe that the photo was taken whilst the Battalion was in Cawnpore, India prior to the Great War.
I cannot see any others who look anything near your NCO.

Sepoy