Genes Project Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 The gentleman below is known from other photographs as Tim - but this is probably a nickname. This photo was taken in late summer 1913 at the wedding of my relation Sergeant Edward George Ryde's (L/9708 2/Middlesex) best man Sergeant Henry Anderson (L/9108 2/Middlesex). So it is likely that he is also 2/Middlesex - he's certainly of the Middlesex from his insignia, and is almost certainly another Sergeant. The other unremarkable but signed photo of him was found on Ted Ryde's body (amongst others of his wife etc) when he was killed going over the top on 10 Mar 1915 at Neuve Chapelle. The likelihood that 'Tim' also served in WW1 is very strong and so there might be an interesting service record there. So i was hoping to identify him by his medals - and they are not my strong point. I'm pretty sure that the outermost is the Army Long Service Good Conduct Medal, and the centre one is the Kings South Africa medal with one clasp. Reading around, I would have said that the innermost one was an Ashanti (1900) Medal from the ribbon. But I also read that this was only issued with one clasp for Kumassi and our man is wearing three clasps. Can anybody help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Probably Queens South Africa? Rods Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 L/13149 SGT Timothy Cronin DCM, 2 Middlesex? Can't see any obvious men in Boer War rolls though and number may be considerably later. Rods Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genes Project Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Looked at the QSA (would have been logical!) but i don't think the ribbons are alike at all... This the 1900 Ashanti... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Looks like 13??? series joined around 1910. Boer War veterans should be 5??? or possibly 6??? numbers. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genes Project Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 L/13149 SGT Timothy Cronin DCM, 2 Middlesex? Can't see any obvious men in Boer War rolls though and number may be considerably later. Good call Tim but... there is actually a full thread on this site (just found it thru Google) on this gent. It seems he would have joined up in the latter part of 1910 so that would preclude him wearing the long service medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genes Project Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Looks like 13??? series joined around 1910. Boer War veterans should be 5??? or possibly 6??? numbers. For reference, Ted Ryde transferred from the Militia in March 1904 and got his number 9708 then. So your sequence looks likely so far as it goes. I understand you got the long service medal then after 18 years (and he was wearing it in 1913) so that means he joined up pre 1895. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 India General Service 1895-1902? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Wasn't the KSA always issued with the QSA?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 The gentleman below is known from other photographs as Tim - but this is probably a nickname. tim.png So i was hoping to identify him by his medals - and they are not my strong point. I'm pretty sure that the outermost is the Army Long Service Good Conduct Medal, and the centre one is the Kings South Africa medal with one clasp. Reading around, I would have said that the innermost one was an Ashanti (1900) Medal from the ribbon. But I also read that this was only issued with one clasp for Kumassi and our man is wearing three clasps. Can anybody help? Perhaps these medals are the India General Service Medal 1895 (this would sit with the three clasps, or bars); and the King Edward's South Africa Medal 1901-02 (which would sit with the clasp/bar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genes Project Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 India General Service 1895-1902? Heart raced for a bit there but... the colour sequence is not quite right and the hanger is wrong. Thanks for trying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Sorry mate....I reckon it's the QSA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Sergeant Edward George Ryde's (L/9708 2/Middlesex L9590 joined January 1904. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genes Project Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Sergeant Edward George Ryde's (L/9708 2/Middlesex L9590 joined January 1904. Edward Ryde joined the Middlesex Regt militia (6th Batt) in December 1903 as 3253 and then transferred to the regular 2nd Batt in March 1904 as 9708 (the L was postumously added). So I don't get the L9590 reference - nothing comes up for the Middlesex under that number on LOTFWW. You've confused me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Hi, You may get some help from the angloboerwar forum re identifying this man via the medals. Good Luck. Steve Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Service number L9590 was issued in January 1904. It 210 away from your man. So gives an idea when he enlisted or was given this number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genes Project Posted 26 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Service number L9590 was issued in January 1904. It 210 away from your man. So gives an idea when he enlisted or was given this number. Got it! yep i know all about Ted (got both his service records) - the mystery guy 'Tim' is his best mate. I don't know who he is - all I know is that he was a veteran by 1913 with a bunch of medals (one of which I cannot identify!) Hi, You may get some help from the angloboerwar forum re identifying this man via the medals. Good Luck. Steve Y Thanks Steve - off there now methinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elstevo Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Although plausible to be a QSA/KSA pair with an Edwardian Army LS&GC, I think the clasps are far too thick to be for the QSA/KSA. Maybe it is an Egypt Medal (1882-89) with 3 clasps, a Central Africa (1895) medal with Central Africa 189498 clasp and an Edwardian Army LS&GC...? This trio would fit the ribbon colours, suspension styles and clasp sizes. Although I would expect to see a Khedive's Star... but it might not have been worn given that it was a foreign award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 27 June , 2014 Share Posted 27 June , 2014 I think the "thicker" bars are just something of an illusion (I think that's probably 6 and 2 bars) - that looks like your classic QSA/KSA pair (with the ribbons rendered slightly oddly by orthochromatic film but in the typical way it makes a QSA/KSA look), matched with a pre-1917 all-crimson ribband Army LSGC medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 27 June , 2014 Share Posted 27 June , 2014 I agree with Andrew it's an illusion. The bars on the KSA are the same size and in this photo the bar is just as thick. If you look carefully you can see lines in the middle of each thick 'bar'. As I said before I don't think the KSA was issued by itself. To get the KSA you must also have the QSA. Rods Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 27 June , 2014 Admin Share Posted 27 June , 2014 The infantry LSGC rolls for 1902-1912 can be downloaded from TNA in ref WO 102/17 If you can find any Tims or names starting with T, you can at least get a list of names to work with. The 1913-1919 ones are here in case he squeezed it in in the July 1913 group. QSA and KSA rolls are on Ancestry or can be downloaded from the WO 100 series at TNA but if they were in the Militia at the time, I don't know what unit to look for. It could be this KSA list or here for QSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genes Project Posted 27 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2014 Wasn't the KSA always issued with the QSA?? Indeed that is what Wikipedia says! And I have now found the clincher - an illustration of the KSA/QSA on orthochromatic film: Courtesy of Andrew Upton on this very site. So I will eat humble pie and admit my amazement that film of that era can render colours so strangely. So thank you all to a man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genes Project Posted 27 June , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2014 The infantry LSGC rolls for 1902-1912 can be downloaded from TNA in ref WO 102/17 If you can find any Tims or names starting with T, you can at least get a list of names to work with. The 1913-1919 ones are here in case he squeezed it in in the July 1913 group. QSA and KSA rolls are on Ancestry or can be downloaded from the WO 100 series at TNA but if they were in the Militia at the time, I don't know what unit to look for. It could be this KSA list or here for QSA And a special thank you for this - a free download that I didn't know about! No distinction between battalions, but mixed in with the 1911 census (at Bordon, and three of 'my' NCOs seem to be in the same platoon) I've got a chance. Anybody got an idea if there is an online source of WO100 roll 339 for the Middlesex KSAs? Cheers, Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 27 June , 2014 Admin Share Posted 27 June , 2014 This critter? http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C3764103 Another freebie to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 28 June , 2014 Share Posted 28 June , 2014 The Medal Rolls for Middlesex in South Africa are on Ancestry. There and only letters recorded for first names. With one Bar for KSA if probably finished his service in 1901? I have had a troll through and it will be a big job! Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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