Minimal Posted 17 July , 2014 Share Posted 17 July , 2014 Item 3 item 3 with text Item 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 17 July , 2014 Share Posted 17 July , 2014 Whoops - got it completely wring but I will add him to my website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimal Posted 17 July , 2014 Share Posted 17 July , 2014 No worries. - more than happy if you want to use any of the images in the FTC web site as i am a regular visitor. Happy for you to use any of the images etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 17 July , 2014 Share Posted 17 July , 2014 That's kind and thank you. From his medal index card, I see he first served in France from 10 May and then Gallipoli where he was appointed Acting CSM. He was commissioined on 14 April 1916, presumably having completed the standard officer training package and then joined Heavy Section MGC. Presumably he arrived back in France wirth A Coy around 20 Sep 16. Robert Martin's website shows he command No 2 Section in 1 Coy of A Bn at Messines ans then he served with A Bn / 1st Bn until the end of the war, His MIC shows he retired with the rank of major and his home town was in Glasgow, Can you let me know what was his profession and when he died? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 17 July , 2014 Share Posted 17 July , 2014 Minimal Grateful for your posts. A treasured set of bits and pieces no doubt. Do you have his medals too? Most interesting Thanks Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimal Posted 17 July , 2014 Share Posted 17 July , 2014 Stephen. I will email you more details directly. Tank3 yes all. The st three I believe known as pip squeek and Wilfred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 18 July , 2014 Share Posted 18 July , 2014 These helmets seem to be a bit of a mystery as there doesn't appear to be much information on them, as in which companies made them and how many factories were producing them. I have just popped into this thread now and again, and each time couldn't help but wonder if the original model for these helmets were those worn by 19th-early 20th cent. coal miners? At the back of mind, I remember seeing something similar to these while in my Durham and Newkie days, and can only imagine it was a photograph of miners in the days before the plastic helmet took over... I could, of course, be entirely up the creek on this one - but it would be nice to know one way or the other! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 18 July , 2014 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2014 Hi all. Sorry for my delay in responding to the new threads. Unfortunately, a while back I was caught up in quite a bad smash-up near J17 on the M25. Got rear-ended at around 60 mph by a vehicle whilst I was stationary, waiting for an earlier accident to be cleared somewhere ahead. Sad to say a fractured spine has been really annoying and has kept me fairly quiet for a while. Anyway... @Minimal. Thanks for sharing your photos, what a superb relic the helmet is and what an absolute pleasure it must be to have in your collection, especially with it having belonged to your grandfather. A pure gem and a real rarity, for sure ! Simply love the menu, too. What a really amazing set of heirlooms. The images you've provided are going to be a great help to me, thank you very much. However, I do have a favour to ask of you. Could you possibly discern for me exactly how the rivets run through the cork/leather spacers. Do they run directly from the outside of the shell, through the liner-band or are two rivets used. One running through from the outside to the first half of the cork and another through the second half of cork to the inside of the liner-band ? Would be interesting to hear back from you. Due to my back injuries it seems like I'm going to be off work for a few more weeks. So, I'm now picking up from where I left off a while back and beginning to fiddle about with my repro helmets. I've taken a snap of my first 'prototype' attempt (liner as yet to come) which hasn't as yet had the vent holes punched and now about to start a 'serious' revised second example. All the best to everyone, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 18 July , 2014 Share Posted 18 July , 2014 Glad to hear you are making a good recovery Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimal Posted 18 July , 2014 Share Posted 18 July , 2014 Mark. Thank for the comments. I will have a look at the spacers. Without pulling apart it may be difficult to see. I will take some close up photos.happy to help especially if it aids your recovery. Stephen you mentioned Robert martins website. Do you have the details Mark. Thank for the comments. I will have a look at the spacers. Without pulling apart it may be difficult to see. I will take some close up photos.happy to help especially if it aids your recovery. Stephen you mentioned Robert martins website. Do you have the details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 18 July , 2014 Share Posted 18 July , 2014 Stephen you mentioned Robert martins website. Do you have the details https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rif Brig. Posted 18 July , 2014 Share Posted 18 July , 2014 Hi Mark, Sorry to hear about your accident. I hope you recover quickly. Your prototype helmet looks fantastic! It looks like it's coming along nicely. Looking forward to the next installment. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 July , 2014 Share Posted 19 July , 2014 Sad to say a fractured spine has been really annoying and has kept me fairly quiet for a while... Yes on both counts... Hope things improve at a nice steady rate. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimal Posted 22 July , 2014 Share Posted 22 July , 2014 Mark the spacer is shaped like a lozenge, @ 3cm long and 1cm wide and runs vertically up and down the helmet. I cannot take them apart but whereas all the rivet joining the helment are punched in from the outside and then folded The rivet for the spacer appears to be driven from the inside, through all sections, and then a head attached from the outside (probably a better technical term for this). I have had a good look and no makers marks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 11 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 August , 2014 Thank you all for your superb feedback, all greatly appreciated. Especially Minimal, thank you so much for the photos, they're excellent ! I've included a photo of my display cabinet with the repro (my prototype:) tank helmet over on the far right. As it's the nearest I'll probably ever get to owning an original I'm really quite pleased with it. Also very much looking forward to bashing a couple more (improved - lessons learnt) versions together. Thanks again for all your help and interest everyone, greatly appreciated ! Cheers for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 12 August , 2014 Share Posted 12 August , 2014 Marcus What a wonderful cabinet. Thanks for sharing the photo. a couple of points of observation. (1) You will no doubt realise that the tank helmet and mask were never worn together. The helmet was introduced in September 1916 in time for Flers. It was not well received and by the time the mask was in use (January 1917) the helmet was no longer in use. (2). I am intrigued by the mask to the left of the cabinet just above the fighting knife. Doyou have any further info on this? Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 12 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 August , 2014 Hello Tanks3. Thank you for your most enlightening words, I had absolutely no Idea the two items were not contemporary. I thought the first masks were issued mid-late 1916, although I did realise that by 1917 the leather helmets were scrapped/dumped. Thank you so much for pointing the facts out to me. Bit of a shame really, certainly when it comes to laying out an exhibition. The mask and helmet combined make such a dramatic visual impact ! To answer your question relating to the other type of mask. I initially though it was an early tank splatter-mask but, have recently been told it's a Dutch machine-gunners mask from the 1914 -1918 period. I have found no contemporary photographs of such dating from WW1 period, nor images of others in private collections (although undoubtedly there are). It has absolutely no soft padding on it's back, only a thin sheet of glued leather approximately 2mm thick. So, that's all I really know about it, it's a Dutch mask... unless somebody out there knows different ? Also, thank you for your kind appraisal of my display cabinet. I quickly rallied it together for the Centenary commemoration at Barnham church, Suffolk. All the best. Markus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 13 August , 2014 Share Posted 13 August , 2014 Markus Thanks for the info on the Dutch mask. I had never seen one before. I wouldn't worry too much about your exhibit. Most I have seen before display the mask and helmet together - in fact I think the one at the tank museum does so. As you say, combined they make such a dramatic visual impact. As long as you know the true facts and can explain them then all is well. Otherwise, as time goes along, it becomes the norm and people then regard the norm as factual. Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 13 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2014 Hello Tanks3. It does seem the Dutch masks are quite a rarity. Perhaps it's simply a result of the army of the Netherlands having had such a limited involvement during the 14-18 period. As for the 'tankie' helmets and mask, I quite agree with you. It would seem that the two items have already fused themselves together in popular imagination, almost to the point of being 'iconic' amongst the rarer items dating from WW1. I seem to recall that, as a child, my first sight of both helmet and mask displayed together was whilst visiting the I.W.M. in Lambeth, no less. In addition, the two items presented together have appeared in so many publications it is perhaps no wonder such a gross mistake has endured. It's been several years since I last made a trip down to lambeth, although I do intend making a visit to see the new WW1 exhibition. Hopefully the I.W.M. powers-that-be have corrected their mistake, too. Is the tank museum you've referred to Bovingdon ? If so, I'm surprised they've also slipped on what is really a critical technical/historical mistake. Once again, thank you for the revelation, much appreciated ! All the best, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 13 August , 2014 Share Posted 13 August , 2014 Mark, For your information, the new IWM exhibition repeats the display of the helmet and mask together. Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 13 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2014 Hello Michael. Thank you for the warning. In truth, I'm just amazed the mistake has endured for so long amongst such elite services as the I.W.M. How very misleading it has been for lesser mortals, such as myself ! All the best, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 14 August , 2014 Share Posted 14 August , 2014 Mark, An interesting point is that the helmet on display in the IWM appears to have the mask attached to it in some way. On sale in the IWM is a recently published book which has a photo of the helmet/mask. When I visited I had very little time so didn't have a good look. However, the combined helmet/mask has got me thinking. Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 14 August , 2014 Share Posted 14 August , 2014 Mark Yes the tank museum is at Bovingdon Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadier Posted 14 August , 2014 Share Posted 14 August , 2014 BovingTon to be precise. Great museum. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus Posted 14 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 14 August , 2014 Michael. Thank you for your observation, I shall be heading down to London in a few days time and shall make a point of following it up. It will be intriguing to hear what the curators there have to say about the subject. Cats amongst the pigeons, one way or the other ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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