Guest Stoner Posted 28 April , 2003 Share Posted 28 April , 2003 While the poppy is widely recognised as an allied symbol of sacrifice, it made me wonder about other countries emblems, am I right in thinking that the German symbol is the Oak leaf? Is the Austrian symbol Eidelweis (please excuse the spelling, I mean the mountain flower made famous in "The Sound of Music" not that I will ever admit to watching it!!) Do the Turkish, Russians, or other countries involved in the conflict have an emblem? Also although I think that Canadian and ANZAC recognise the poppy, were there any other options? Another question is the Cornflower? was this an early remembrance symbol, or is it just associated with 1st Ypres? A whole load of questions there! Sorry. I can remember the poppy appeal changing from The Haig Fund, but can't remember the "official" reason? I'll leave it at that now but can feel a whole load of other questions brewing! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stoner Posted 28 April , 2003 Share Posted 28 April , 2003 Forgot to ask! Who was it that decided that the Poppy would be the British symbol of sacrifice? Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 28 April , 2003 Share Posted 28 April , 2003 A mere three days after ANZAC day perhaps I can remind people of "Rosemary for remembrance" which used to be widely worn for ANZAC day. Anyone who has scrambled through the scrub on Gallipoli will know that the territory remains redolent with the scent of rosemary and wild thyme. It is said that many veterans fought shy of such seasonings because the scent reminded them of the peninsula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 29 April , 2003 Share Posted 29 April , 2003 Hi Mark: The poppy is the emblem of remembrance for Canadian members of the armed forces killed in all conflicts Canada has participated in. Remembrance Day (November 11th) is a statutory holiday in Canada. The Royal Canadian Legion starts selling poppies several weeks before the 11th. For decades, the poppy was red with a green felt centre. Last Remembrance Day (2002), the RCL changed the centre to black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 29 April , 2003 Share Posted 29 April , 2003 The rosemary still is used. A colleague of mine is a Royal Australian Air Force officer, and he returned from the central London ANZAC commemorations with a sprig affixed to his uniform. (He got me a ticket for Westminster Abbey - and at the last minute I couldn't go!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 29 April , 2003 Share Posted 29 April , 2003 As far I am aware the cornflower stems from about 1917 when the young soldiers of the 1917 conscription group were called up. These became known as the "blue berries". Later on invalid soldiers made cloth flowers from a cornflower blue material. This symbol is used on the tourist route in the Department of the Aisne, along the Chemin des Dame - well worth a visit if you get the chance. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lesley Posted 29 April , 2003 Share Posted 29 April , 2003 Have seen for sale in Delville Wood shop badges with poppies and forget me knots together. Is the forget me knot the French symbol of rememberence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 29 April , 2003 Share Posted 29 April , 2003 Forgot to ask! Who was it that decided that the Poppy would be the British symbol of sacrifice? Thanks Mark Mark, Have a look at this site for a little more info regarding the poppy. The site is that of a masonic lodge named 'Legion' and as you can guess their badge is a poppy. Their site gives Col. John McCrae's poem. The reply by Miss Moira Michael who also sold the first poppy and it credits the idea of the first artificial poppy to a Madam Guerin http://go.to/legionlodge then click on Remembrance Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 29 April , 2003 Share Posted 29 April , 2003 In the UK,Major George Howson had formed a society to help disabled exservicemen and women from the Great War and apparently suggested to the British Legion that the disabled could make poppies and this led to the founding of the poppy factory at Richmond in 1922. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Holstein Posted 29 April , 2003 Share Posted 29 April , 2003 The cornflower was used as the symbol of remembrance in France after the Great War but it's use died out somewhere along the line. There's a move to revive it today, which is why you can see it along the Chemin des Dames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maurice davis Posted 30 April , 2003 Share Posted 30 April , 2003 Whilst at the remberance service at Thiepval last Novermber there was a collection box in the Marie for the Frence war dead and they were using the corn flower as their symbol Maurice Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas G. Posted 1 May , 2003 Share Posted 1 May , 2003 Goodday, THe cornflower (bleuet in french cause it's blue) is still the official French remembrance flower but more used on stickers (sell on 11th nov.) or Vet. association symbols. But it's clear he is less use as the poppy in Commonwealth. No paper-flower or wreath as an ex. For the cornflower history (equal to the poppy hist.) see http://www.onac-erp-soisy.com/ERP/Bleuet_France.htm Concerning the forget-me-not, I learn it's newfoundland remembrance flower when visiting Beaumont-Hamel. Nicolas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 2 May , 2003 Share Posted 2 May , 2003 Just come back from the Commissary on post here in Huntsville: a veteran offered BLUE Poppies (not cornflowers)! What's that about? He told me: the American Legion sells traditional Red poppies , whereas the American Disabled Veterans sell BLUE ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garde Grenadier Posted 3 May , 2003 Share Posted 3 May , 2003 Hello Mark! Oakleaves – the German „Eichenlaub“ - was/is considered a sign of Victory. Oaktree-groves were planted in honour of fallen German soldiers. The oak – the „queen“ of the woods - used to be the Germanic holy tree of the god Thor or Donar. It was always considered a symbol of German strength. Oakleaves were and are still used to honour winners at sport- or shooting-festivals in Germany. The oak is a symbol of glory, pride, long life, fidelity, faithfulness, strength and fruitfulness. It was used on the German Iron Cross, introduced in 1813. Till the Nazis took over in 1933 the symbols used on monuments for fallen German soldiers of the Great War were the Iron Cross, oak-leaves, sword and steel-helmet. Best wishes Daniel The Austrian army used the above mentioned symbols. The Edelweiss was also used by the German mountain-units (the Bundeswehr mountain-troops are still using it nowadays, on their banners, hats and uniforms). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 28 October , 2003 Share Posted 28 October , 2003 Having received an email from Bepposapone asking about NZ poppy emblems. we realised that NZ does not celebrate Nov 11 any more (at least so it seems, I will wait and see what happens and report back). On Anzac Day, April 25, we wear these poppies, but nothing any other time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 28 October , 2003 Share Posted 28 October , 2003 My avatar are a pair of Royal British Legion Scotland poppies. They don't have the green leaf used by RBL down south. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 28 October , 2003 Share Posted 28 October , 2003 I'm pleased Christine has brought this thread to the top if the index again. Here's Canada's version of the poppy. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevew Posted 28 October , 2003 Share Posted 28 October , 2003 Have seen for sale in Delville Wood shop badges with poppies and forget me knots together. Is the forget me knot the French symbol of rememberence? I have one of the badges from Delville Wood, underneath the poppy and the forget me nots are the words 'Never Forget" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Evans Posted 29 October , 2003 Share Posted 29 October , 2003 At the risk of being cashiered, can I mention the white poppy, the symbol of the Peace Pledge Union and intended to be a symbol of grief for all people of all nationalities, armed forces and civilians alike, who are victims of war. What are members feelings on the wearing of white poppies? Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gem22 Posted 29 October , 2003 Share Posted 29 October , 2003 What are members feelings on the wearing of white poppies? Roy I've never seen white poppies on sale and I understand that the original poppies that were made for Remembrance were white. However I do know that a lot of elderly people around where I live get very upset when you mention white poppies. They see these white poppies as being disrespectful. I'm talking about people in their 70' to 90's; many of whom lost family or friends in one or more of the world wars. So I suppose the way they react, and some have admitted to violent feelings, may well colour my judgement but I see no need for the white poppy. I suspect that I see it more as a political gesture and I'm all for keeping politics out of Remembrance and this website. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gem22 Posted 29 October , 2003 Share Posted 29 October , 2003 My avatar are a pair of Royal British Legion Scotland poppies. They don't have the green leaf used by RBL down south. Aye Malcolm Malcolm Not all poppies sold down south have leaves. Some people like them but many don't. Personally I'm a traditionalist and don't have wear a poppy with a leaf. However I will happily offer poppies with leaves if it raises money for the RBL. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 29 October , 2003 Share Posted 29 October , 2003 At the risk of being cashiered, can I mention the white poppy, the symbol of the Peace Pledge Union and intended to be a symbol of grief for all people of all nationalities, armed forces and civilians alike, who are victims of war. What are members feelings on the wearing of white poppies? Roy I myself see nothing wrong with the White Poppy. At one time I even used to wear one, along with a red one. They used to be available at the "Brighton Peace Shop". I do not have access to my papers at present but, IIRC the "White Poppy" came about as the result of a suggestion made by a Mrs Kathryn Richmond from Coolhurst in Sussex. Her son Roy Richmond was a WW1 Conscientious Objector who died as a result of Conscription. Roy Richmond was an art student at Brighton Art College who was of Quaker origin and did not believe in killing. He had a perfect legal right to object to war, but was given short shrift by the Brighton Tribunal. This was common, and was probably because Appeal Tribunals were simply the old Recruiting Tribunals under another name, same local "worthies" involved etc. The thing about Roy Richmond was that he had chronic heart disease, and was so ill that he could hardly walk across the room. As he did not report for military service he was arrested and taken to court. He could at any time have said that he was not fit to join the army, and gone home. This he refused to do as he had a legal right to have a conscience. The official mentality being what it was they sent a sick man to almost certain death for the crime of having a conscience. Roy was sent to Northampton and given a bed for the night in a hut full of recruits. The next morning he attempted to make his way to the parade ground in order to disobey an order, but collapsed before he could get there. He was "in the army" for 6 or 8 weeks while the paperwork for his discharge was sorted out and he went home and died a few weeks after that. Although just about every member of my family was in the trenches I like to think that they were fighting for a persons right to say "no". At the time people claimed to be fighting against "Prussianism". This being said, my own mother, who "put her age up" and joined the ATS at the age of 15 towards the end of WW2 hated and despised C.O.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 29 October , 2003 Share Posted 29 October , 2003 My avatar are a pair of Royal British Legion Scotland poppies. They don't have the green leaf used by RBL down south. Aye Malcolm Malcolm Not all poppies sold down south have leaves. Some people like them but many don't. Personally I'm a traditionalist and don't have wear a poppy with a leaf. However I will happily offer poppies with leaves if it raises money for the RBL. Garth I have some Scottish poppies I purchased in the Highlands in the early 1990s. At that time Scottish poppies were very similar to the poppies we wore in England in the 1960s - a black, sort of composition, centre and a wire pin with paper (?) petals. Are they still the same? I remember thinking that the Scots must have obtained the machines, surplus petals etc when England went over to the more modern plastic poppy. Possibly not though, as the Scots must have sold poppies before the change in England. I suppose it depends on if the Scots poppies had been sourced from the RBL poppy factory near London? Does anyone know the date when England changed to the current type of plastic poppy? Also, when the wording in the centre changed from "Haig Fund" to "Poppy Appeal"? I intend to frame a selection of RED poppies, forget-me-nots, rosemary etc, and would like the wording on the label to be accurate. It is amazing to see the variation in poppies both over time and from country to country. If anyone oversea's is interested in obtaining some of this years English poppies in exchange for an equal quantity of your own poppies or whatever please email me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Birch Posted 29 October , 2003 Share Posted 29 October , 2003 Does the white poppy grow naturally, or is it purely symbolic? Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 29 October , 2003 Share Posted 29 October , 2003 Does the white poppy grow naturally, or is it purely symbolic? Tim Tim/ The White Poppy does exist in nature. See here: http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/p/...p/popwhi64.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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