Raypalmer Posted 2 May , 2014 Share Posted 2 May , 2014 Hello I've been told that this photo is of a German staff car that was 'captured' by my Great Uncle (who is in the photo) and his colleagues. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me anything about the vehicle which might support the story. Thanks Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 2 May , 2014 Share Posted 2 May , 2014 I've been told that this photo is of a German staff car that was 'captured' by my Great Uncle (who is in the photo) and his colleagues. Ray Ray, Yes, it is a German Staff Car, I think it is a Mercedes, which from the photo, has been well ' shot up ' and is out of action. As the British soldiers are not wearing any combat equipment, they either destroyed the vehicle in an earlier action, and have returned to have their photos taken, or they came across the abandoned German vehicle and jumped in for a photo opportunity. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 2 May , 2014 Share Posted 2 May , 2014 It's an Opel, Opel actually supplied most German WW1 officers' cars. And not so much shot up as disabled. I suspect that it had to be abandoned for some reason so the tyres were removed for recycling/reuse (Germany was desperately short of natural rubber and artificial rubbers of the time did not make good tyres) and bullets put through the radiator. There would also usually be a rifle holder between the doors that has also been taken off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raypalmer Posted 2 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 2 May , 2014 Thanks very much LF and Centurion. I did doubt the 'capturing' bit, because as you say they don't look as though they've just engaged the enemy. More likely they grabbed the chance to impress the folks back home with a photo! I hadn't noticed the bullet-holes in the grille. Love the photo, though! Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 3 May , 2014 Share Posted 3 May , 2014 It's an Opel, Opel actually supplied most German WW1 officers' cars. What model of ' Opel ' are you basing your assumption on ? I can find no example of an Opel with that type of shaped radiator grill being used during WW1, the only examples I have found all show the usual ' Opel ' flat fronted radiator grill. Attached is a photo from Bart Vanderveen's reliable Vehicle Directory showing the WW1 German Opel Staff Car, again with the flat fronted radiator grill. Opel did make changes to the radiator grill, however, they were dated 1919/1920. The only WW1 German Staff Car I can find, with that shaped grill, is the Mercedes Staff Car. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 3 May , 2014 Share Posted 3 May , 2014 As ever Centurion Ito must disagree with you. As far as I am aware only Mercedes had a rad. cowling that shape at that time. But who knows - I could be wrong. It's certainly been known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_sole Posted 3 May , 2014 Share Posted 3 May , 2014 I also think it's a Merc. The pointy front grille isn't something I've seen on Opels. The swept down front mudguards look very swish for a staff car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 May , 2014 Share Posted 3 May , 2014 I also think it's a Merc. The pointy front grille isn't something I've seen on Opels. The swept down front mudguards look very swish for a staff car Take a look at the photo of an Opel officers car on page 120 of \the Observers Army Vehicles Directory to 1940 Also have a gander in the same work at the photos of Mercedes cars which do not have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 3 May , 2014 Share Posted 3 May , 2014 Take a look at the photo of an Opel officers car on page 120 of \the Observers Army Vehicles Directory to 1940 Also have a gander in the same work at the photos of Mercedes cars which do not have it. Ref your post # 8, what sort of ' jibberish ' answer is this ! The black and white photo shown in post # 5 is from page 120 of The Observer's Army Vehicles Directory, and the radiator grill shown on the Opel on page 120 is nothing like the radiator grill shown on the vehicle in post # 1 The radiator grill shown on the German Staff Car in post # 1, is far more typical of that used by Mercedes/Benz. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 May , 2014 Share Posted 3 May , 2014 Well I thought we were having a civilized discussion but I might have guessed you'd intervene. Look at the other photos of Mercedes on the same page as your drawing and you'll see that the radiators are nothing like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 3 May , 2014 Share Posted 3 May , 2014 Hello Ray, very nice photo,always good to see soldiers actually having some fun, do you know (approx) when the photo was taken or perhaps your gt uncles name & unit etc. It might help give some 'personality' to the image , by the way which one is your gt uncle?? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 3 May , 2014 Share Posted 3 May , 2014 Well I thought we were having a civilized discussion but I might have guessed you'd intervene. Too right, especially when you are again coming up with another of your usual ' load of Cods Wollop ' nonsense answers to try and cover up one more of your many gaffs. Your post # 8, being a very good example. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 3 May , 2014 Share Posted 3 May , 2014 1913 Mercedes showing the distinctive radiator style http://electric-edwardians.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/mercedes-rennwagen-grand-prix-car-1913.html?m=1 http://www.mbca.org/star-article/march-april-2011/automobiles-benz-and-mercedes-1908-1925 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 3 May , 2014 Share Posted 3 May , 2014 Three falls, one submission or a knockout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 Hello I've been told that this photo is of a German staff car that was 'captured' by my Great Uncle (who is in the photo) and his colleagues. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me anything about the vehicle which might support the story. Thanks Ray Ray, Do you know anything about what your Great Uncle was in the war? Looking at the tight pattern of bullets to the front of the car and its radiator, plus the windscreen shot in and also noting how your Great Uncle has assumed the role of driver of the car, to me it tends to suggest he played a key role in stopping the car and I wonder if he was a Lewis/machine gunner? I presume all the tyres were removed because they were not shot up and were very useable elsewhere. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 Three falls, one submission or a knockout? Unlikely. Disappearance is more normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 Steven The voice of silence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 In the words of Sir Tom Jones ... "It's not unusual". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 I would actually like to know whether or not the car in post #1 is a Mercedes, Opel or any other make of German car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 I would actually like to know whether or not the car in post #1 is a Mercedes, Opel or any other make of German car. Well, opinion is clearly very divided -not unusual on GWF as our Mr Pooter has already observed... All I can say is that long donks ago, when collecting miniature classic cars, a pointed radiator was a Mercedes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 I would actually like to know whether or not the car in post #1 is a Mercedes, Opel or any other make of German car. Gareth, Bart Vanderveen's ' Observer's Army Vehicle Directory ' is a well respected reference work and provides reliable information. On page 120 of this book, there is a photo of a German Opel Staff Car, which is shown in post # 5, along with another coloured photo of a WW1 period Opel vehicle, both vehicles having the same flat radiator grill design typical for Opels of that period. It was not until after WW1, 1919 and on, that we start to see a change in some of the Opel's radiator grill designs. The vehicle shown in post # 1, has that distinctive swept back radiator grill very typical of the Mercedes and Benz vehicles of that pre-WW1 and WW1 period. As there is no reliable caption to the photo in post # 1, and no visible maker's badges or logos are seen on the vehicle, we can only go by the main design features of the vehicle, one of which is the vehicle's radiator grill design, and then compare that design feature with other known examples shown in reliable reference books or other photographic evidence, the Observer's Army Vehicle Directory being one such reliable reference work. Based on the radiator grill design shown in post # 1, that German Staff Car, is in all probability either a Mercedes or a Benz, rather than an Opel. Attached are some photos of both Mercedes and Benz vehicles, covering the period pre-WW1, and during WW1. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 Benz vehicles for the same period. LF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 Opel WW1 German Staff Car radiator grill detail. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 LF Very clear, many thanks. Are there any surviving examples of German Great War staff cars in museums? I have a vague recollection of seeing one somewhere fairly recently but I have no idea where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 4 May , 2014 Share Posted 4 May , 2014 German Opel vehicles very similar, if not the same, as the German WW1 Staff Car shown in post # 5, note the flat radiator grill design. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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