Khaki Posted 11 March , 2014 Share Posted 11 March , 2014 I have a fairly standard Great War German 'trench' knife', factory made with the wooden slab grips with diagonal serrations, no makers name, but definitely Great War. The interesting feature is the left grip is clearly stamped in very small letters and numbers, S.Hn.111 and under that 8.93 , The only interpretation that I can find is to a Hannover Police District, but that doesn't seem to make sense with a 14-18 dagger, even if it is a police marking, I have never heard of police being issued combat daggers, rifles pistols even machine guns from the GW, yes but never daggers. any thoughts khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 March , 2014 Share Posted 11 March , 2014 any thoughts khaki A photograph???!!! I don't know much about these 'nahekampf(er)messe' (sp?) - even less than I know about most bayonet types! - but wooden-gripped ones do exist, some fixable to a rifle, with a mortice slot, some not, but none I have come across with diagonal grooving, which sounds more like a regular bayonet grip - and most probably is if there are seven. I also wouldn't think it would be police issue - but one of those stormtroop units in the 1919-1930's might have used them. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 11 March , 2014 Share Posted 11 March , 2014 There was a Hanoverian regiment in infantry division 111, 4. Hannoversches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 164, so there may be a connection there. It was also from Hamelin - is that south Hanover? Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 March , 2014 Share Posted 11 March , 2014 Hameln is the pied piper town and yes it is in Lower Saxony and so near Hannover - did a day trip there once in the 1970's so can't be that far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militariaone Posted 11 March , 2014 Share Posted 11 March , 2014 Agree with Trajan, please post a photo and with GT. too, its probably a German Regimental marking. I have seen one or two with stamped unit's marking on the wood. Regards, Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 11 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 March , 2014 Here goes, hope it works khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militariaone Posted 11 March , 2014 Share Posted 11 March , 2014 Greetings Khaki, Your knife appears to be a Leupold model see post #42 here http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/imperial-germany-austro-hungary/wwi-german-occasional-austrian-trench-knife-thread-370751-5/ Wish I could comment on the markings authenticity, they appear as discussed to be German Regimental Markings, as to their legitimacy I don't know either way. Thank you, for sharing the picture! Regards, Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 12 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2014 another shot, impressed unit number, not hand stamped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 March , 2014 Share Posted 12 March , 2014 Your knife appears to be a Leupold model see post #42 here http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/imperial-germany-austro-hungary/wwi-german-occasional-austrian-trench-knife-thread-370751-5/ Wish I could comment on the markings authenticity, they appear as discussed to be German Regimental Markings, as to their legitimacy I don't know either way. Thank you, for sharing the picture! And thank you for that link! I never would have thought that troddels would have been worn with these things! Khaki, if you have followed up on that link you'll see that there is a mention of 'fraktur' marks appearing on what should be official issue versions. If you don't know what these are, they are small marks with a crown over (usually) a single Gothic letter, sometimes two letters. I don't know where you would look for them on a knife, but the side of the pommel towards the top end is usual in bayonets. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 March , 2014 Share Posted 12 March , 2014 You'll find some more here - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=124000 It seems that the fraktur mark is to be found on the blade ricasso It also seems that proper German name is 'grabendolch' = 'trench dagger(!)', although I always thought it was 'nahekampfmesser' = 'close combat knife' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 12 March , 2014 Share Posted 12 March , 2014 That looks to be a Weimar period police marking. Prussian region with the S. for Schutzpolizei and the Hn. for the district (take your pick of German cities) The other numerals stamped indicate Command number in Roman numerals, then the particular Centuria (group etc), then the weapons own Item number. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 12 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2014 Thanks S>S, Yes, that was the only interpretation I could make of it, I just had never heard of German police (regulars) carrying such a weapon, let alone being issued them with issue markings, and from what I have read I thought that the early days of the Great War were the 'swan song' of German unit markings (military). However other members may find something as in post #3 by Grovetown. Either way, it is what it is, an interesting item for consideration. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 12 March , 2014 Share Posted 12 March , 2014 Some of those German police units were virtually 'para-military' during that period. I have even heard mention of 'riot-squads' so I wouldn't discount the weaponry.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 March , 2014 Share Posted 12 March , 2014 Weimar police had bayonets didn't they? As sidearms? One possibility is that this one was worn as a sidearm by a police officer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 12 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2014 Thanks Trajan, There is no possibility that this dagger ever started life as a bayonet, it is a match for the images post #7 (link) by militariaone., although I have to agree with you that a number of trench daggers were altered bayonets, although Weimar markings don't hold any interest for me, it's still not a bad example of a German trench dagger. regards khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 March , 2014 Share Posted 12 March , 2014 Thanks Trajan, There is no possibility that this dagger ever started life as a bayonet, regards khaki Oh, I quite agree, and certainly didn't mean to imply that it was a converted bayonet! It was just that as Weimar police had bayonets then I could visualise a scenario where the top guy wears a trench knife (perhaps even with a troddel!) to indicate that he is the top dog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 12 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2014 Sorry Trajan, I misunderstood your post, all clear now ! khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 March , 2014 Share Posted 12 March , 2014 Sorry Trajan, I misunderstood your post, all clear now ! khaki My bad English phrasing - my students often complain about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 13 March , 2014 Share Posted 13 March , 2014 ... the Hn. for the district (take your pick of German cities) According to this web site - http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?12778-Weimar-Police-Marking-S-H-I-27-on-98-05nA - the S.H.I.27 marking on a 1920 demilitarised 98/05 bayonet was for Hannover, so 'Hm' for Hameln seems a reasonable deduction for yours. BTW, the same page also mentions a book, History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936, by L.Donald Maus, and a web-page by the same man,- http://www.historywritinsteel.com/ - which might be of interest to you. Happy hunting! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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