Bob Chandler Posted 15 February , 2014 Share Posted 15 February , 2014 Good afternoon, Could any Royal Berkshire Regiment experts out there tell me whether service number 10119 is likely to indicate a pre-war regular? Private Frank SMITH 2nd Royal Berks no.10119 arrived in France with the rest of the original battalion in early November 1914 (from MIC), and died of wounds on 8th October 1915. He was born in 1888, the son of John and Matilda Smith of Easton, Welford, nr. Newbury Berks. As the 2nd Royal Berks was in India when war was declared, not reaching England until 22 October, it suggests to me that Frank was already with them - as presumably he was too young to have been a recalled reservist? I’m currently writing up my research on him for my forthcoming website on the Welford parish war memorial (www.welford-wickham.co.uk) which is currently under construction. Cheers, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerbeadle Posted 15 February , 2014 Share Posted 15 February , 2014 His number suggests that he enlisted between March 1913 and March 1914. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chandler Posted 15 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2014 Fantastic - this is why I like this forum so much! Many thanks, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phsvm Posted 18 February , 2014 Share Posted 18 February , 2014 Charles - am trying to PM you and your mail box appears to be full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purley Posted 18 February , 2014 Share Posted 18 February , 2014 he enlisted at Reading 9/2/14 he was a pow when he died regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janey Posted 30 April , 2014 Share Posted 30 April , 2014 May I also please ask for help in determining date of enlistment for Royal berks regiment men from their service numbers? They are: Number/ Btn 426 1/4th 5831 1/4th 13062 8th 13066 8th 13069 8th 16321 8th 16952 1st 23423 7th 24859 7th 201027 8th 201028 8th 201029 ? 201114 2/4th I can supply their names and ranks if needed. Very grateful for any help with this Janey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 30 April , 2014 Share Posted 30 April , 2014 Please please do not call them berks as in #6 above.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janey Posted 30 April , 2014 Share Posted 30 April , 2014 My apologies - it was purely a typewriting error and entirely unintended.. Sorry! Can you help with my query please? Janey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 30 April , 2014 Share Posted 30 April , 2014 suggest you PM the resident expert, Purley, see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purley Posted 30 April , 2014 Share Posted 30 April , 2014 426 1/4th George Mount Haines of Stockcross died 16/5/16 - He would have been a pre-1908 Volunteer. 5831 1/4th Lewis Albert Beckinsale of Beenham joined end Nov 1915 13062 8th William Wells of Stockcross enlisted 3/9/14 13066 8thStanley Alfred Hillier of Northbourne enlisted 3/9/14 13069 8th Henry John Radbourne of Stockcross enlisted 3/9/14 16321 8th Archibald John Palmer of Marsdh Benham enlisted 4/1/15 16952 1st Harry John Percy enlisted 1/3/15 23423 7th Albert Thomas Johnson attested 10/5/16 24859 7th Alfred Edward Hine of Marsh Benham attested 10/12/15 called up 3/6/16 201027 8th James Pocock of Marsh Benham originally 3363 in 2nd/4th joined circa Nov 1914 201028 8th Jose[ph Pocock of Marsh Benham originally 3364 in 2nd/4th joined circa Nov 1914 201029 Sidney Richard Pocock of Skinners Green formerly 3365 in 2nd/4th circa nov 1914 201114 2/4th Albert Darling of Marsh Benham originally 2nd/4th enlisted 4/12/14 regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 told you so! GWF triumphs again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janey Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 Thank you very much indeed, John - just what we in SASHA are looking for! Immensely helpful. Could I please add 3 more men to the list? 16592 Arthur Lainsbury 15504 James Widdick and, most puzzling, Frederick William Palmer, who has 3 consecutive service numbers- 28536 Royal Berkshire regiment; 98726 Labour Corps; 44392 Durham Light Infantry! One query? We have 13062 as William Willis, not Wells. So we may have the wrong number, perhaps? I must confess to a certain confusion as to the actual relationship between volunteered, enlisted, and attested. Also how one can know whether a man was in the Territorial Force before the war. The Pococks, for example - does their initial 4 figure nos suggest that they were in the TF? And can one find when they were transferred from the 2/4th to the 8th, since this will affect the service they saw? It is also difficult to know sometimes whether a man was perhaps a reluctant conscript, or whether he was a volunteer. Lewis Beckinsale's obituary suggests that he was conscripted in march 1916 - but the record above shows that this is not so. He volunteered but was not mobilised until 1916. Would welcome your comments on the above, when you have time. I imagine that you are dealing with many queries, from your obvious knowledge. Thank you again most sincerely. Janey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aradgick Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 Quote <Frederick William Palmer, who has 3 consecutive service numbers - 28536 Royal Berkshire regiment; 98726 Labour Corps; 44392 Durham Light Infantry> Janey, As these three units are listed on Frederick's medal card, he served with all three of them overseas. The likely story is that he first went to France with the Royal Berkshire Regiment, got wounded (or invalided) and considered unfit for infantry service, but still fit enough to serve with the Labour Corps. Later, he either recovered sufficiently to return to fighting with an Infantry unit (and would have been allocated to whichever unit need more men), or the 'bar was lowered', and his disability was not now sufficient to keep him in the Labour Corps. Andrewr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janey Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 Thank you once again for help. Andrew. Now I need to find out when he was in each Regiment. His service record is on Ancestry, but much is illegible, so will need careful reading. He was wounded in Italy and died from his wounds. Janey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purley Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 16592 Arthur Lainsbury of Burghclere served with 1st Bn and enlisted 18/1/15 at Newbury. At least one paper had him as Lanisbury 15504 James Widdick served with 8th Bn and enlisted 10/11/14 at Newbury Frederick William Palmer of Stroud Green attested at Newbury 22/5/16 and was called up 17/7/16 He served with the 13th Bn but then got transferred to the 13th DLI in a batch that became DLI 44382-44430. These are both Labour Battalions and he would have become Labour Corps when they took over all the Labour Battalions in March 1917. He was killed with the Labour Corps but CWGC tend to record their previous regiment when listing Labour Corps deaths The different terms for joining up are a bit confusing. Enlisting is the common term for joining the army when you don't know the details. In November/December 1915 all men over a certain age had to register at their local town hall. They had 4 options A volunteer for immediate service, B go onto the reserve and await call up, C refuse, D await being conscripted. The difference at this stage was that a man who was A or B attested at that point but did not get a regimental number until he actually joined the regiment, C had to go before a tribunal and D attested when they joined the regiment to which they had been conscripted. The men who joined before Dec 1915 were all volunteers and a few were volunteers in the next month or so, then they became consscipts or some signed on as regulars. Men who joined a Teritorial Battalion had a special ststus which was maintained even when they were posted to a non-Territorial battalion. Their number series started at 1 in 1908 and eventually reached about 7900. In march 1916 they all got six figure numbers. Some regulars got transferred to territorial battalions and got numbers in the 20,000 series in the R Barks - They got 'ordinary' six figure numbers but men who had a territorial designation who joined from another regiment got six figure numbers in the 220,000 series or 219000 if they joined in Salonika. You can spot territorials from their numbers in many cases but it is very much hit and miss. There are very few ways to tell a conscript from a volunteer and really no way of telling from their number. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janey Posted 1 May , 2014 Share Posted 1 May , 2014 Thank you, John, for all of this, am really most grateful, not only for all the valuable information but also for the speed of response to my enquiries. The Wardrobe Museum tell us that they have been inundated with enquiries and at present are only up to dealing with enquiries received last January, so they have been unable to help within our time-scale. Which makes your help even more valuable. Kind regards Janey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeves_colin Posted 23 September , 2014 Share Posted 23 September , 2014 Sorry to jump in on this Post, but I am looking for any information that can be added to what I already have for a Royal Berkshire Regiment soldier, who I believe was a relative of mine Alfred Dance, b 26 Sep 1884 service number 7370 1st Royal Berkshire Regiment landed France 13 Aug 1914 Taken POW at Vailey 14 Sep 1914 His home address would have been in the Maidenhead area and he had another Brother Frank Dance who also served with the Royal Berkshire Regiment enlisted on 11 Aug 1914 Frank was wounded and later discharged. Any information on either of these soldiers would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerbeadle Posted 23 September , 2014 Share Posted 23 September , 2014 if you haven't seen them, the International Red Cross records for Alfred Dance are here Insert the PA numbers into the reference box for full details.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerbeadle Posted 23 September , 2014 Share Posted 23 September , 2014 There is a service record for Frank Dance 281974 - Royal Berkshire Regiment on ANCESTRY He gives his address as Reform Road Maidenhead. Wounded in the leg April 1916 He was transferred to the Labour Corps in June 1917. Discharged medically unfit November 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeves_colin Posted 23 September , 2014 Share Posted 23 September , 2014 Reply Thanks for the info.. I have found these records along with MIC for both Men. When I heard about the POW records being available, I searched Alfred Dance as a shot in the dark, and I guess I came up bullseye. I was just hoping that someone with deep knowlege of the Regiment might have a little more info to give. I assume that Alfred must have been a Full time soldier prior to 1914, as he went to France right at the start. Franks records also show that he had previous service with the Regiment, possibly Part time. Thank you for your time and help so far. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerbeadle Posted 23 September , 2014 Share Posted 23 September , 2014 Colin John Chapman.... (Purley on here) may be able to offer more help.... Have you checked the battalion diaries for the dates of Alfred's capture and Frank's Injury? If not they are online here cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeves_colin Posted 23 September , 2014 Share Posted 23 September , 2014 Thank you very much, I will try a PM to Purley... In the meantime, I will revisit the diaries Thank you Colin.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 28 April , 2020 Share Posted 28 April , 2020 Hello GWF Pals, Just picked up on this thread re Royal Berkshire Regiment numbering, don't know if any anyone has a plausible reason as to why a chunk of 141## numbered men all seemed to Londoners? Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 28 April , 2020 Share Posted 28 April , 2020 8 minutes ago, HolymoleyRE said: Hello GWF Pals, Just picked up on this thread re Royal Berkshire Regiment numbering, don't know if any anyone has a plausible reason as to why a chunk of 141## numbered men all seemed to Londoners? Regards Andy Looking at the records it just seems to be a group of men who enlisted on or around 5 Sep 1914 for service and were directed to the Royal Berks - presumably they needed the men and they were simply sent were the army wanted them to. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 28 April , 2020 Share Posted 28 April , 2020 40 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: Looking at the records it just seems to be a group of men who enlisted on or around 5 Sep 1914 for service and were directed to the Royal Berks - presumably they needed the men and they were simply sent were the army wanted them to. Craig Cheers for that Craig, provides weight to one angle I had considered, guess with the two Regular Battalion, the TF Battalions, 5 Service Battalions and other Berkshire flavoured units to be raised/manned then local early Volunteers would dry up Had originally thought some may have been working out of the city in the summer months as farm labourers. picking crops and joined up locally in Reading. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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