skr123 Posted 30 January , 2014 Share Posted 30 January , 2014 I would be grateful for any ID on the photo attached. I am researching a relative who I know served from 1900 to 1908 with the RGA but I'm now wondering if he re-enlisted for the war. This photo was with his 1908 discharge parchment and other family documents/photos. If it is indeed 1914-18 then it confirms my thoughts. Any info on the possible unit would be most welcome. many thanks Spike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 30 January , 2014 Share Posted 30 January , 2014 No shield on the gun so not a 13 pdr, 18 pdr or 4.5" howitzer as used by the Royal Field Artillery. The horses are heavy draft so RGA would be my best guess - as to what gun it is I'll leeave that for an expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.topham Posted 30 January , 2014 Share Posted 30 January , 2014 Not sure angle is a bit deceiving but could be a 60lb; which the RGA served as opposed to the 13lb & 18lb which the RHA and RFA served respecfully Picture has four pairs of horses (and big ones at that) which the 60lb also had could be a clue? If the person you are talking ablout served 1900 -1908 then they would have been eligible for re-call to service as a reservist in 1914. Bom T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 30 January , 2014 Share Posted 30 January , 2014 I would think wartime Heavy Battery RGA ..one of the Howitzers.??. like this? https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2329/2353791432_1b8727f648.jpg I would think very likely to have served again if serving to 1908 - almost certainly on a 12 year enlistment prewar [fulltime + reserve to make 12yrs] .. if within age range would almost certainly have been called up in 1916 if not previously volunteered tiled roof to farm looks like France to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 Not A Sawyer is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 This is definitively a wartime photo dating no earlier than 1916 and more likely no earlier than 1917. The Driver on the lead pair appears to wear the Soft SD cap introduced in 1916. The boots he is wearing if Issue boots (as opposed to private purchase), which is likely, than photo is no earlier than 1917. The type he is wearing were introduced in that year. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 I'm fairly sure that it is howitzer - either a 6 inch or an 8 inch: the barrel shape looks to me more like the latter. What do others think? William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 I'd agree with BomT The wheels look like those on the 60 pounder Mk II carriage and limber piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skr123 Posted 31 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2014 Thanks everyone for the information - you confirm what has been puzzling me since properly looking at these photos. Yes, he was on the reserve for the remainder of his 12 years - It looks likely that he re-enlisted and having been RGA I would expect he would initially have gone back to them. The dating of the photo seems to helpfully rule out any overlap with the end of his first period of engagement and it doesn't look much like Malta and Gibraltar where he had been posted. This post is for John Arthur Bell b1882. Service number 2844 from 1900 - 1908. I have looked at his service record for that period and he was also previously a volunteer with 4th Oxford Light Infantry so he has a much more interesting service record than the family have given him credit for - I'm trying to rectify that! I have another group photo showing what I am pretty sure is him but with a RASC cap badge which had until now baffled me - how likely would that transfer be? Would the fact that he was a bit older have had any influence on that? I can put that photo up here if its the right place or another thread if more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 I have another group photo showing what I am pretty sure is him but with a RASC cap badge which had until now baffled me - how likely would that transfer be? Would the fact that he was a bit older have had any influence on that? I can put that photo up here if its the right place or another thread if more appropriate. During the war the Army Service Corps numbered amongst its many tasks moving guns (like the 60 pounder) up to the front The Royal Army Service Corps would have also transported guns after the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 The perspective makes identifying the gun difficult. The barrel seems too long for 6-in How, and the barrel doesn't seem to be far enough towards the horse to be 60-pr. I don't think heavies like 8-in How or 6-in Gun were ever towed by horses, they always seem to have had 'traction engines' wheels. That leaves one possibility, 4.7-in Gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 I agree with nigelfe that it is a 4.7 QF Field Gun on a Carriage Travelling Converted MK 1. (Converted from RML 40 Pdr). The wheels are 1st Class B No 6 weighing 588 lbs each. I come conclusion to this by the wheel brake assembly. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petwes Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 Out of interest were there a significant number of 4.7 QFs still in service in France in 1917? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 Out of interest were there a significant number of 4.7 QFs still in service in France in 1917? Peter No they were replaced by the 60 pounder and transferred to Salonika and Italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petwes Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 Then was this picture taken in Salonika or Italy? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 These 4.7in guns were used on the vcWestern Front but they were eventually superseded by the more powerful and heavyer 6 inh guns, they redeployed to other fronts, numbersw were sent to Italy and Serbia. They were declared obosolete shortly after the war ended. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 I actually think that is a 60pdr Gun MKI on a MKII carriage and not the 4.7". The recoil mechanism rear look more like the 60pdr which appear larger than the 4.7". Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 These 4.7in guns were used on the vcWestern Front but they were eventually superseded by the more powerful and heavyer 6 inh guns, they redeployed to other fronts, numbersw were sent to Italy and Serbia. They were declared obosolete shortly after the war ended. John 1922 to be precise. I have doubts that many were sent to Serbia - a confusion I think with Macedonia (Salonika) (post 14) I actually think that is a 60pdr Gun MKI on a MKII carriage and not the 4.7". The recoil mechanism rear look more like the 60pdr which appear larger than the 4.7". Joe Sweeney I agree as I said in Post 8. The 4.7 was used on two basic carriages - only one used wheels anything like those in the photo - this was in fact the 40 pounder BL carriage the rest of which did not look like the carriage in the photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 2 February , 2014 Share Posted 2 February , 2014 The origin of the 4.7 was Parliament. The army was developing the 60-pr but a media campaign led to 4.7 being mandated for the TF. Eventually the 60-pr replaced them. The key question is whether the upmost tube is the barrel or the buffer-recuperator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.topham Posted 2 February , 2014 Share Posted 2 February , 2014 Take a look at this picture looks very similar and the angle matches. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Captured_QF_4.7_inch_gun_WWI_LOC_ggbain_19654_HR.jpg Bom T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.topham Posted 2 February , 2014 Share Posted 2 February , 2014 There is a previous thread from 2007 that gives a lot of technical data including numbers employed not sure how to do link though Bom T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 The 4.7 pic shows the carriage shape is very different to the one in the first photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.topham Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 The 4.7 pic shows the carriage shape is very different to the one in the first photo. So identity still unclear? Bom T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Its definitely not 4.7 or 6in. Therefore the visible top 'tube' is part of a 60pr Buffer Recuperator and the barrel is obscured mainly by the wheel. The shape of the saddle and trail is consistent with 60pr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 13 November , 2014 Share Posted 13 November , 2014 Nigel is correct, I can positively confirm this photo is of 141 Hvy Bty. Rgds Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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