Old Owl Posted 12 January , 2014 Share Posted 12 January , 2014 Hi All, I have a little interest in the above unit through an item which I have recently acquired. Can anyone clarify exactly how many men served in this small unit? From the information which I have found it consisted of 4 armoured lorries and various support trucks with 24 gunners on Triumph Motor Cycles. So by my rough guess it could only have consisted of circa 100 men at the absolute maximum and probably a much lesser number. An interesting account of the unit can be found in The Machine Gunner 1914-1918 by C.E.Crutchley. Interestingly I checked the MIC for Sir John Christopher Willoughby who is credited with raising the unit. His MIC shows him as an ASC officer(confirmed in the Army List)although he is also noted as R.H.Guards and 1st A.M.B. and that he entered East Africa in Feb 1916 as a Major. He had previous war service in Egypt and South Africa. He was awarded the DSO and an MID during WWI. He died in April,1918. Any information or pointers greatly appreciated. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 12 January , 2014 Share Posted 12 January , 2014 Robert The War Diary may be able to help,if you can get to read it at Kew. There are three War Diaires for units called 1 Armoured Motor Brigade serving in East Africa in WW1. You have mentioned Willoughby and he has two Diaires with his name in the title, under WO95/5314 from Jun to Sep 1916 and the other 95/5343 for Oct to Dec 1916. The other Diary is WO95/5343 labelled just 1 Armoured Motor Brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 12 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2014 Robert The War Diary may be able to help,if you can get to read it at Kew. There are three War Diaires for units called 1 Armoured Motor Brigade serving in East Africa in WW1. You have mentioned Willoughby and he has two Diaires with his name in the title, under WO95/5314 from Jun to Sep 1916 and the other 95/5343 for Oct to Dec 1916. The other Diary is WO95/5343 labelled just 1 Armoured Motor Brigade. Many thanks, these sound most interesting. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Sir John Willoughby acted as the Officer Commanding for the on board contingent of troops (HMT Huntsgreen). Willoughby, who had become infamous some years previously for his involvement in the Jameson Raids into Matabeleland, was now enroute to command No. 1 (Willoughby’s) Armoured Motor Battery. This unit had been formed privately in February 1915, it was equipped with four Leyland armoured cars. It was accepted by the Army as No.322 Company, Army Service Corps, and sent out to East Africa. Following its service in East Africa, the unit was disbanded upon its return to England in July 1917. Willoghby arrived at Kilindini BEA March 14th 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Hello old owl According to War Establishments, the battery consisted of 6 officers and 113 other ranks. Batteries elsewhere were slightly smaller: those in Mespot had 5 officers and 77 other ranks. So your guess of about 100 was pretty close! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 13 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Sir John Willoughby acted as the Officer Commanding for the on board contingent of troops (HMT Huntsgreen). Willoughby, who had become infamous some years previously for his involvement in the Jameson Raids into Matabeleland, was now enroute to command No. 1 (Willoughby’s) Armoured Motor Battery. This unit had been formed privately in February 1915, it was equipped with four Leyland armoured cars. It was accepted by the Army as No.322 Company, Army Service Corps, and sent out to East Africa. Following its service in East Africa, the unit was disbanded upon its return to England in July 1917. Willoghby arrived at Kilindini BEA March 14th 1916. Many thanks Kondoa. This is most interesting and would explain why Willoughby was an ASC officer and not an MGC officer as I had thought. It would appear however that the majority of the Gunners were recruited from the MGC/MMGS(RA) and were obviously keen motor-cyclists. A picture is beginning to emerge now Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 13 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Hello old owl According to War Establishments, the battery consisted of 6 officers and 113 other ranks. Batteries elsewhere were slightly smaller: those in Mespot had 5 officers and 77 other ranks. So your guess of about 100 was pretty close! Ron Hello Ron, This is exactly the information which I was seeking. Are you aware of any listing of the officers and men? Of course we know of Willoughby and I have definite proof of 4 o/rs who were with the unit, all of these being MGC/MMGS(RA) men and I suppose that the other officers would be a mixture of ASC and MGC? Probably the drivers would be ASC men too. Many thanks for your help. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushfighter Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Robert Greetings Do you have the relevant pages from: War Cars. British Armoured Cars in the First World War by David Fletcher (HMSO 1987)? If not and you send me a PM with an email address then I will send them to you. Here's a photo of two of Willoughby's 'cars' at Handeni, German East Africa. Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Harry Not stealth fighters then ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 13 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Hello Harry, Many thanks. I will PM you my email address, as I do not have the publication which you mention. Robert Harry Not stealth fighters then ! I wonder if the idea was to make as much noise as possible in the hope that the enemy would disperse ahead of them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Robert You may find the names of the officers, but probably few names of other ranks, in the War Diaries at Kew: WO 95/5314 1 (Willoughby's) Armoured Motor Battery 1916 June - Sept. WO 95/5333 1 Willoughby's Armoured Motor Battery 1916 Oct. - Dec. WO 95/5343 1 Armoured Motor Battery 1916 Mar. - May Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 13 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Robert You may find the names of the officers, but probably few names of other ranks, in the War Diaries at Kew: WO 95/5314 1 (Willoughby's) Armoured Motor Battery 1916 June - Sept. WO 95/5333 1 Willoughby's Armoured Motor Battery 1916 Oct. - Dec. WO 95/5343 1 Armoured Motor Battery 1916 Mar. - May Ron Many thanks Ron, I'll check these out. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 Robert Checking through a few lists I've got for East African theatre embarkation returns shows the following identified as 1st A.M.B. 2078 Gunner Alfred W. Davis 1257 Gunner Terence Foy 1060 L/Corporal Charles William Fowler 1682 Gunner Arthur Thomas Fuller 1842 Gunner Albert Hill 2070 Gunner George A. Davis 2033 Gunner Stewart McGillveray 2030 Gunner Peter J. O’Neil 1667 Gunner Robert Peet 1816 Gunner Charles F. Blair 2071 Gunner William Duncan Bruce Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 A couple of surviving service records suggest that the unit embarked aboard H.M.T. "Huntsgreen" at Devonport on 7th February 1916 and disembarked at Kilindini on 16th March 1916. A further draft? embarked aboard H.M.T. "Euripides" at Plymouth on 24th June 1916, disembarked at Durban and transhipped to H.M.T. "Professor" on 28th July 1916 before disembarking at Kilindini on 6th August 1916. A check of WO25/3544 & WO25/3545, EMBARKATION RETURNS. At Home for Abroad - Jan. to Mar. 1916 and April to June 1916 respectively, should show what strengths the units left the UK with. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcassell Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 The War Diary of 1 AMB contains a large number of names though in most cases only the rank and surname are given. I have confirmed the details of the following MGC men: 2111 Gunner Edward Thomas Cosslett 1738 Gunner Charles Cochrane * 2075 Gunner William Harry Monk 2018 Gunner Daniel Rice 1790 Gunner Wilfred Bolster * 2175 Gunner Charles Lang 2106 Gunner Arthur Kilburn 2095 Gunner William Ernest Bransdon * 1946 Gunner Peter Hynd 1928 Gunner John Halkett 2108 Gunner John Geoffrey Leeming * 1098 Gunner Alfred L. Miles 2013 Gunner David Aitken Those with asterisks I have traced service/pension records. I have a copy of a manual produced by Sir John Willoughby in December 1915 at Bisley. It gives the recommended establishment of 1AMB as: 4 Armoured Cars; 2 1 ton lorries; 1 Workshop lorry, 6-8 Box body Fords; 2 water cars; 55 to 62 motorcycles; 103 bicycles. 7 to 8 officers; 7 Staff NCOs; 5 to 6 Sergeants; 7 Corporals; 32 drivers (Privates); 31 motorcyclists (Privates); 15 scouts and messengers (privates); 7 Fitters; 1 searchlight operator; 7 to 8 batmen. Total personnel: 119 to 129 all ranks. Whether Willoughby got this establishment is another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 14 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2014 Robert Checking through a few lists I've got for East African theatre embarkation returns shows the following identified as 1st A.M.B. 2078 Gunner Alfred W. Davis 1257 Gunner Terence Foy 1060 L/Corporal Charles William Fowler 1682 Gunner Arthur Thomas Fuller 1842 Gunner Albert Hill 2070 Gunner George A. Davis 2033 Gunner Stewart McGillveray 2030 Gunner Peter J. O’Neil 1667 Gunner Robert Peet 1816 Gunner Charles F. Blair 2071 Gunner William Duncan Bruce Regards Steve Many thanks Steve, I have 4 more names to add to the list although I cannot confirm Gnr Maclachland definitely: 1414 Gunner George A.Draper 1812 Gunner Frederick H.Rood 1765 Gunner Cecil Herbert Finch **** Gunner **** **** Maclachland Draper and Maclachland are mentioned by F.H.Rood in the book Machine Gunner 1914-1918 by C.E.Crutchley. I also have a 'dog tag' named: Pt.C.H.Finch/Pres/1765/1.A.M.B. So with your 24 names we now have 28 Pte/Gunners who rode the motorcycles. In the book Machine Gunner 1914-1918, Rood refers to 1/AMB in Jan.1917: "We began our journey. Our Battery consisted of four armoured lorries, various food trucks, and 24 Gunners on Triumph motorcycles." Looks like the numbers are somewhere near to approaching being in line with the numbers quoted in the manual which you mention. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 14 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2014 The War Diary of 1 AMB contains a large number of names though in most cases only the rank and surname are given. I have confirmed the details of the following MGC men: 2111 Gunner Edward Thomas Cosslett 1738 Gunner Charles Cochrane * 2075 Gunner William Harry Monk 2018 Gunner Daniel Rice 1790 Gunner Wilfred Bolster * 2175 Gunner Charles Lang 2106 Gunner Arthur Kilburn 2095 Gunner William Ernest Bransdon * 1946 Gunner Peter Hynd 1928 Gunner John Halkett 2108 Gunner John Geoffrey Leeming * 1098 Gunner Alfred L. Miles 2013 Gunner David Aitken Those with asterisks I have traced service/pension records. I have a copy of a manual produced by Sir John Willoughby in December 1915 at Bisley. It gives the recommended establishment of 1AMB as: 4 Armoured Cars; 2 1 ton lorries; 1 Workshop lorry, 6-8 Box body Fords; 2 water cars; 55 to 62 motorcycles; 103 bicycles. 7 to 8 officers; 7 Staff NCOs; 5 to 6 Sergeants; 7 Corporals; 32 drivers (Privates); 31 motorcyclists (Privates); 15 scouts and messengers (privates); 7 Fitters; 1 searchlight operator; 7 to 8 batmen. Total personnel: 119 to 129 all ranks. Whether Willoughby got this establishment is another question. Apologies Gunner Parr, I'm afraid that I am confusing Steve's posts with your posts!! Anyhow, many thanks for the most interesting information, I didn't realise that there was so much information to be had out there--fantastic!! Regards, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 14 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2014 A couple of surviving service records suggest that the unit embarked aboard H.M.T. "Huntsgreen" at Devonport on 7th February 1916 and disembarked at Kilindini on 16th March 1916. A further draft? embarked aboard H.M.T. "Euripides" at Plymouth on 24th June 1916, disembarked at Durban and transhipped to H.M.T. "Professor" on 28th July 1916 before disembarking at Kilindini on 6th August 1916. A check of WO25/3544 & WO25/3545, EMBARKATION RETURNS. At Home for Abroad - Jan. to Mar. 1916 and April to June 1916 respectively, should show what strengths the units left the UK with. Steve Many thanks Steve, HMT Huntsgreen is also mentioned by Rood in the Machine Gunner, as being the troopship which transported 1/AMB to East Africa. Thanks for the other pointers too--much appreciated. Regards, Robert , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcassell Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 Apologies Gunner Parr, I'm afraid that I am confusing Steve's posts with your posts!! Anyhow, many thanks for the most interesting information, I didn't realise that there was so much information to be had out there--fantastic!! Regards, Robert Very glad the information was useful. The officers have been a conundrum but the following appears to be most of them (I will entertain any corrections): Apart from Willoughby there are mentioned in 1 AMB War Diary: Lt. S.S.G. Chivers ASC 2Lt. W. Goldsack MGC Lt. A.J. Bamford 2Lt C.H. Hills MGC (ceased to belong to Corps same day Willoughby resigned 22 August 1917) Lt. F.J. Adams MGC Captain Brown(e) ASC I had forgotten about Rood and Draper, the latter later serving with Lawrence's Hedjaz battery. There are a few casualties to MGC in 1 AMB : 1740 Gunner William Naylor Dd. 25 April 1916 2221 Gunner Harold Thistlewhite Dd. 2 May 1916 1911 Gunner James Watson Dd.29 June 1916 1817 Gunner Archie Cameron Dd.8 May 1917 The following are speculative as belonging to 1 AMB: 2037 Gunner George Westwater 2063 Corporal Percy E. North 141 Gunner Roy Wallace 1112 Gunner Percy Gerken 1548 Gunner A. Burden 2347 Battery Sergeant Major Robert Tippot Kerris Ap-Thomas (MID Smut's 22 November 1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 15 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Many thanks GP for yet more useful information. Very glad the information was useful. The officers have been a conundrum but the following appears to be most of them (I will entertain any corrections): Apart from Willoughby there are mentioned in 1 AMB War Diary: Lt. S.S.G. Chivers ASC 2Lt. W. Goldsack MGC Lt. A.J. Bamford 2Lt C.H. Hills MGC (ceased to belong to Corps same day Willoughby resigned 22 August 1917) Lt. F.J. Adams MGC Captain Brown(e) ASC I had forgotten about Rood and Draper, the latter later serving with Lawrence's Hedjaz battery. There are a few casualties to MGC in 1 AMB : 1740 Gunner William Naylor Dd. 25 April 1916 2221 Gunner Harold Thistlewhite Dd. 2 May 1916 1911 Gunner James Watson Dd.29 June 1916 1817 Gunner Archie Cameron Dd.8 May 1917 The following are speculative as belonging to 1 AMB: 2037 Gunner George Westwater 2063 Corporal Percy E. North 141 Gunner Roy Wallace 1112 Gunner Percy Gerken 1548 Gunner A. Burden 2347 Battery Sergeant Major Robert Tippot Kerris Ap-Thomas (MID Smut's 22 November 1916) Did you by any chance see a mention of Pte/Gnr Finch or Pte/Gnr Maclachland in the diaries? I have found an MIC for Finch but failed on Maclachland, and yet Maclachland is mentioned by name on several occasions by Rood in the Machine Gunner 1914-1918. I fancy that the casualties you refer to will be from disease rather than enemy action? Many thanks again for this most useful information. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 I have found an MIC for Finch but failed on Maclachland, and yet Maclachland is mentioned by name on several occasions by Rood in the Machine Gunner 1914-1918.Robert Could it just be down to a mis-spelling of the surname? There is a MIC for a 2047 Henry McLauchlan, Machine Gun Corps/Motor Machine Gun Service (Royal Artillery) which would seem to fit. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 15 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Robert Could it just be down to a mis-spelling of the surname? There is a MIC for a 2047 Henry McLauchlan, Machine Gun Corps/Motor Machine Gun Service (Royal Artillery) which would seem to fit. Regards Steve Hi Steve, Yes, I believe this is most probably the case. It looks like this must be him Many thanks once again, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 Here is the HMT Huntsgreen, formerly the German vessel "Derflinger". One showing the ship in Kilindini harbour. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 16 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2014 Many thanks for these pictures Roop. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RPJ Posted 26 April , 2014 Share Posted 26 April , 2014 My wife's grandfather was RP Jones and he served in the 1st AMB in Africa. After Cairo he joined the Hejaz Armoured Car Company serving under TE Lawrence in the Arab Revolt. One of his colleagues was G Westwater (mentioned in one of the posts)who also served in Africa and Arabia. Both are mentioned on the Hejaz Nominal Roll in the Seven Pillars of Wisdom. I attach a photo of the survivors of the 1st AMB. A note written much later by RP reads, "Taken at Heliopolis near Cairo after return from East Africa. These were the remnants of 1st AMB, 131 strong after about 20 months of fighting in East Africa from August 1915/May 1917." I also have a photo of G Westwater on his Model H Triumph in East Africa. The back of the photo says 1915 but this may be wrong. I am researching RPJ and any leads anyone could offer would be very welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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