Lives of the First World War launch - February 2014

[Coldstreamer]

glad it wasn't just me

[ianw]

Yes does seem a bit clunky and unfriendly - and also set up to raise revenue. But I will persevere just as they did way back then.

The photo option is easy to work with though.

[E Wilcock]

On another thread, I am very confused about where to post errors, I asked what one was supposed to do if a person ,my uncle Edgar Gollin was listed in the wrong Battalion. An indexer somewhere has misread the medal card. Tho I seem to remember the error is possibly in some official source somewhere as I myself had it wrong at some point too. He is listed as 15th. But was 13th. Shown on medal card and mentioned twice in War Diary OH says.

Should I have sent them an email?

[spof]

If the correct battalion is shown on the medal card, simply click on Medal Index Card link, scroll down to unit and rank and edit it there.

[researchingreg]

I have just registered with 'Lives of the First World War' and wanted to add some information on a soldier and had to look up evidence to add in this instance Birth to add to the record which is initially got by the IWM from medal index cards and they want you to fill out the details of the soldier with evidence.

However when I tried to look for the information and add it. I was asked to suscribe £6 a month or £50 pounds a year. So this exercise is not about gaining knowledge and getting a full record of soldiers. It is a money making exercise.

I am prepared to give any evidence I have or can find out but I do not want to pay for the privilege.

What do you think?

[David_Underdown]

If you add new references to material held elsewhere, or which you already ahve, you do not have to pay, if you're looking at records for which you would need to have a subscription, or pay to download, then you can become a friend and get access. There may be alternative source for some things, eg http://www.freebmd.org.uk for BMD indices.

[HeatherC]

What I find particularly frustrating is that I have an Ancestry subscription and so already pay to view all the "official" records I want to add (census, birth records, service records, pension records, etc) but it seems I can't simply click to add them from the "Official Records" category (even though I know what they say) unless I pay again?

I realise I can scan records I have paper copies of, add them as pictures and then add facts from them, but this seems awfully long-winded! You can of course add a personal story but then you can't add "facts" to the timeline from the story.

So I know a great deal about my Great Uncle's life and war service but can't easily add any of it.. Or am I missing something obvious?

[Hollytree]

I have moaned again at the IWM and received this reply:

"Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your e mail.

As a general rule:

If you have an original family document such as a photo, letter, or original certificate in your possession, you probably have the right to reproduce it.

If you had to pay to access it (for example, using a newspaper archive or a family history website) you probably don’t have the right to reproduce it.

However, often copyright can be more complicated, as there are a great many places from which people obtain documents or copies of documents. For this reason, we ask our users to confirm that they have the relevant permissions before uploading anything.

Digitising, transcribing, and serving digital archives costs time and money, so under agreement with organisations like the National Archives, the copyright for those digital versions sits with the digitiser.

This is why we've made sure there is an option to add an external reference to a Life Story. If evidence exists online (or in offline archives) that you don't have the rights to reproduce, you can add information about where you found it so that other users can track down the same information.

In this way, if you're not confident you have the rights to use an image or scanned document, you can instead add a link to where you originally found it.

You can search the official records and connect the transcripts of the birth marriages and deaths but you cannot add the images for copyright reasons."

All I wanted to do was to put the dob and other geneaogical bits and pieces, not to get into the nause of having to go to Ancestry/FindmyPast etc etc to do that......

Anne

[spof]

Anne

If you have the birth certificate, you can either scan it and upload it (there is no copyright issue with certificates unless living persons or named on them). Otherwise, use the External Reference / Copy of an Official Document and enter the GRO reference - Year, Quarter, District etc. While it does not show the information on the certificate, it does provide the source which is what is really needed. If anyone wants to question the information, they will have the source to check (even if it means they have to fork out £9)

Glen

[spof]

Heather

Use the Add an External Reference then the Copy of Official Document. You can add BMD certificates or census details if you have the full RG reference and lots of other items that way.

The Search Official Records takes you to a subset of Findmypast's records and is really aimed at people wanting to add information but don't have a subscription to the various genealogy sites. Links to records on FMP, Ancestry etc can be also be added as it proves the source even if it will require a subscription (or library access) to se it.

Having said that, if someone isn't interested in a lot of the family history records on these sites such as parish registers or directories from the 1830s, it could be a cheaper way of accessing military records. I'll have a think about it when my FMP sub runs out given how bad the new site is.

Glen

[HeatherC]

Thanks Glen - that looks quite sensible and I'll give it a go later!

Heather

[Hollytree]

Another reply from the site:

"If you already have a subscription to the findmypast website, you have two options;

1 - You can remain a Member of Lives of the First World War and not pay. This will mean you'll lose access to searching official records via our site, but you can still continue to add your research from findmypast by adding links to that site (or any other) under the 'external reference' option.

2 - You can pay to become a Friend of Lives of the First World War, which will mean you'll also have access to premium features like creating Communities, as well as the ability to search official records from within the Lives of the First World War site.

By adding a link under the ‘external reference’ section, you are making a valuable contribution as this provides evidence that can be verified. It is true that another person would need to be a FMP subscriber to view that link but the same is true if the ‘external reference’ link were to the National Archives, Ancestry.com or Forces War Records.

In future, we do hope to be able to offer something for all current subscribers to the DC Thomson Family History websites.

We are at the beginning of a major, long term project and we just haven't had the time as yet to build the systems required to allow the Lives of the First World War website to communicate with the other DC Thomson Family History websites and securely transfer subscription information between them.

Please be assured that we are looking at ways to achieve that. However, it is a complex process and we are not guaranteeing a particular solution.

It would be a real shame if people were to stop piecing together the Life Stories that they are interested in right now so please do add ‘external references’ if you are not keen to pay for this service."

It smacks a little of money

Anne

[ianw]

It smacks a little of money

Anne

No, it smacks a lot about money - but let's face it, without commercial support, it simply would not have happened. So I will go ahead with using the no cost options.

Also, excuse my ignorance but is it possible to ask it to show all entries where a photograph has been added?

[Hollytree]

I agree that commercial support has transformed the way that historical research is done these days. I have fond memories of trawling page by page thru' various censuses and parish registers.....but I think that if one has a subscription to these sites then at least there should have been some heads up to researchers explaining why.....I have seen on a couple of websites where family historians are willing to "fill" in the missing details of their family WW1 men, only to be put off (as I was) the demands of more money.... I have spent enough money over the past twenty years on family research, I don't want to spend double. I will have another look when I have time....but as the site is not that user friendly I will bide my time.

Dont know about your second question, sorry

Anne

Edited 13 May , 2014 by Hollytree

[spof]

The systems and people needed to set up and run a project of this size can't be insignificant so being able to offer access to records for those without an existing subscription is one way of offsetting that. The descriptions of the 2 different offerings - paid or not paid - has left a bit (lot?) to be desired judging by the number of people who think you need to pay to add data.

Also, excuse my ignorance but is it possible to ask it to show all entries where a photograph has been added?

Search options seem to be very limited at the moment and I don't know if this one is possible. Given everything is geared towards getting people adding data then I doubt it is possible yet.

[paul leeson]

Well the money side has certainly dampened my initial enthusiasm and due to the time taken to add each item, I will support the project but probably only put up the minimum and still rely [or reference] my own records. Unless they make it a lot easier to use or suddenly add some fantastic new record sets.

Paul

[Hollytree]

The systems and people needed to set up and run a project of this size can't be insignificant

I agree, but they cannot expect people who already subscribe to one of their "sister" sites to pay again for information they have already accessed. And they haven't made that clear....

Anne

[ianw]

I agree, but they cannot expect people who already subscribe to one of their "sister" sites to pay again for information they have already accessed. And they haven't made that clear....

Anne

Yes this is a weakness. However, I note that they intend to try to address this issue.

I suppose the pressure was on given that it is now May to get something up and running so that it can be showed to all the "big noises" around and about.

The head honchos always have the attention spans of goldfish (and similar technical nous) so if you can show them a few nice pics of soldiers that the public have added to the site, they will no doubt go away perfectly happy for their expensive lunches and a few gins.

I am sure it will improve with time and tweaking - but it probably wont get any cheaper!

At the moment, this is giving me the impression of a chance lost to create something extraordinary for the Centenary. But I really hope to be proved wrong!

[Kath]

Joined (out of curiosity) and found a mis-transcription from the MIC of the first man looked at.

Kath.

[Hollytree]

At the moment, this is giving me the impression of a chance lost to create something extraordinary for the Centenary. But I really hope to be proved wrong!

I agree.

[E Wilcock]

"Posted Yesterday, 09:49 PM

If the correct battalion is shown on the medal card, simply click on Medal Index Card link, scroll down to unit and rank and edit it there."

I am away from our computer and my files. However I am unable to do this correction as suggested because the version of the medal card available to me on the LGW site is their text transcript giving the wrong battalion. My own PRO image of the medal card was acquired through a sub to ancestry whichI have had for many years and indeed I have recently not renewed a far newer sub to find my past.

Like someone else above, I am somewhat amazed to read that one needs to pay to view material uploaded or linked by contributors. We had been led to believe that the site would be free to view and have no intention of paying a subscription But I will need a few days at home to get an accurate idea of what is going on before taking a decision about my uncle' papers and other family archive material.

[ianw]

Like someone else above, I am somewhat amazed to read that one needs to pay to view material uploaded or linked by contributors. We had been led to believe that the site would be free to view and have no intention of paying a subscription But I will need a few days at home to get an accurate idea of what is going on before taking a decision about my uncle' papers and other family archive material.

Is it true that there will be a charge to view material posted freely by contributors? Surely this must be incorrect? If this is the case , it is totally unacceptable to me.

[spof]

No. If someone posts a link to a record on Ancestry, FMP or the Lives record set then obviously you'll need to be a subscriber although a local library may be a workaround. If someone posts an image of a photo, letter or postcard etc then they will be free as will transcriptions of records or letters added by people.

Think of it as similar to digitised war diaries on GWF. If you are looking for a day's events and you have already downloaded the war diary then no problems. If not, you either pay to download it yourself or hope someone will type up the day's events and post them for free.

People are getting confused between the option of taking out a separate subscription for a subset of FMP's records through the Lives project to search for information (only really needed if you don't already have a subscription elsewhere) and using a link to records on TNA/Ancestry/FMP as an External Reference. The images on these sites themselves are copyright and cannot be uploaded but can be used as a source to prove where the information came from which requires a subscription. Even then that is only relevant if you want to look at the original image and you can probably do that via a library if you don't have a subscription. People's contributions of scanned personal items or information they have typed in themselves from records are free.

[AndrewHadden]

Firstly,full marks to the IWM for this excellent idea.However,although I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth,,I must admit that to being a tad disappointed that within only a couple of minutes,and only 4 or 5 searches, I found errors and omissions,not attributable to the original source material.

For example:a) I looked for Lt. Percy George Boswell (,KOYLI,KIA 1st July 1916),to find not a trace..This is particularly surprising as he is one of the men included in the IWM's own Somme Online Exhibition!His medal card does exist,so presumably has not been transcribed.

b.) A fallen relative who is correctly,and clearly named as Augustus B Gregory on the MIC has now been renamed for posterity as Augustin.

A high error rate,but I appreciate I may be unlucky,,and hope that this is not typical.Blitches will occur in a task of this magnitude,but of course there will be an unpaid army of volunteers,many from this forum,,who will help iron out those blitches.The questions I have are firstly,how does one go about including someone like Percy Boswell, who,according to the website,doesn't exist?secondly,although there is a facility to edit the medal roll "evidence",there is no facility to expand this to include the medals awarded.This information could of course be included in the "life story",but it seems to me that it should be included either in a stand alone section,or as supplementary to the MIC.Perhaps this is already possible,and I'm being thick?.

Still a nice effort,though!

.

[Doctord84]

Not got past first base yet as my verification link to my e-mail program doesn't come through (despite several attempts) and I can't re-register as it says my e-mail address is already listed??!! Thoughts anyone please?