Will O'Brien Posted 17 March , 2014 Share Posted 17 March , 2014 Leither There are quite a few soldiers who joined 1st RSF in autumn 1914, who on the face of it look as though they only had a month of training - the fact that they were sent to a regular battalion (and a very choosy one at that), and not with their pals to a service battalion for more training, leads me to think that they had all been experienced in OTCs or were reservists or other wise had prior training. William William, just to prove there are exceptions to every rule, my Great Uncle was one of those men who volunteered late August/early September 1914 & was sent to the 1st Battalion in December 1914. He had no prior military experience of any form. He was a labourer at the local gas works prior to the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 17 March , 2014 Share Posted 17 March , 2014 William, just to prove there are exceptions to every rule, my Great Uncle was one of those men who volunteered late August/early September 1914 & was sent to the 1st Battalion in December 1914. He had no prior military experience of any form. He was a labourer at the local gas works prior to the war. Will - the dates you give for your Great Uncle just about give enough time for the fourteen weeks training that the 3rd Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers (based at Camp Fort Matilda, Greenock/Gourock) claim they gave to recruits destined for the Regular 1st and 2nd Battalions RSF. It was men in 1st RSF who went out on 14th August 1914 [later edit: I actually meant the large reinforcement of 95 men who arrived with battalion 9th Sept 1914], who it is a claimed had no prior training, that I maintain almost certainly had prior military service or experience/training in an OTC or perhaps in a Territorial unit, even if records of it are missing. William. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Abbott Posted 19 March , 2014 Share Posted 19 March , 2014 The gravestone of Adam Horsburgh Porteous, who may be the piper in the 1912 and 1914 photos:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will O'Brien Posted 24 March , 2014 Share Posted 24 March , 2014 Will - the dates you give for your Great Uncle just about give enough time for the fourteen weeks training that the 3rd Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers (based at Camp Fort Matilda, Greenock/Gourock) claim they gave to recruits destined for the Regular 1st and 2nd Battalions RSF. It was men in 1st RSF who went out on 14th August 1914 [later edit: I actually meant the large reinforcement of 95 men who arrived with battalion 9th Sept 1914], who it is a claimed had no prior training, that I maintain almost certainly had prior military service or experience/training in an OTC or perhaps in a Territorial unit, even if records of it are missing. Apologies William, I misunderstood your post. thanks for the clarification. William. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboode Posted 9 April , 2014 Share Posted 9 April , 2014 Mentioned as Pipe Major of the 1st Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers are David Campbell (1914-1915) and J. McNab (from 1915). Does anyone have more information about these Pipe Majors, in particular their full first/middle name(s) and year/place of birth and death. Thanks. Aad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Abbott Posted 22 July , 2014 Share Posted 22 July , 2014 Aad.... According to 'Floo'ers O' The Forest - Fallen Pipers of the Great War' , the Pipe Major of the 1/4th Bn. RSF was Serjeant Piper Neil Shaw (200150). He is recorded of dying of wounds in Palestine on 27th April 1917. He is listed by the CWGC with the rank of Lance Serjeant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 22 July , 2014 Share Posted 22 July , 2014 Pipers of 1st Royal Scots Fusiliers were mentioned in a thread a couple of years ago concerning co-operation between the RSF and the Royal Scots, and I wrote: "When 1st Battalion RFS lost their beloved pipe-major David Campbell, wounded at Hooge 15th June 1915, and had no piper of a high enough standard to promote to this post, 1st Battalion Royal Scots lent them their second-best piper, Sergeant J. McNab, who as Pipe Major McNab, stayed with 1st Royal Scots Fusiliers for the rest of the war [officially transfered to 1st RSF on 20th Nov 1915]." I don't think that I have any more notes on them somewhere, but I'll have a look just in case. (Ron, 1/4th Bn RSF was the 4th Bn., not the 1st Bn., but easy mistake to make: the "1/.." denoted that they were Territorial.) William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dawniebrowning Posted 14 September , 2014 Share Posted 14 September , 2014 Hi Im researching a soldier from 1st Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers who was a pre war territorial who then became a regular seeing service in both SOuth Africa and India prior to the Great War. He landed in France at Le Havre on 14 Aug 1914 and was taken prisoner some 9 days later, spending the rest of the war as a POW. Can anyone tell me what the Bn were doing at the time of his capture and also is it possible to identify where he was held prisoner? Many thanks Mutley Hi I dont really know if im doing this correctly but my great grandfather alfred Clayton lance corp was also 1st Royal Scots Fusiliers how can i get pics and info and would anyone know of him from old records please dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 14 September , 2014 Share Posted 14 September , 2014 Hi Dawn, Welcome to the forum! On the whole, the best place to start when tracing a soldier is Chris Baker's website The Long Long Trail: HERE. I have briefly looked through the medal index cards on Ancestry, and I see that there were at least 20 men called Alfred Clayton in the British Army in WW1, plus a load of A. Claytons. The only one I can find who was in the Royal Scots Fusiliers was a private in the 6th Battalion RSF, not the 1st Battalion, but the indexing on Ancestry is terrible so he might still be there. Are you sure he was Royal Scots Fusiliers, and not Royal Scots? Did he have a middle initial? Do you know where he lived exactly? (He might be in the 1901 or 1911 censuses). Any information will help. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboode Posted 20 November , 2014 Share Posted 20 November , 2014 I'm also interested in the Pipes and Drums of the 1st Bn. Royal Scots Fusiliers. The CWGC lists him as having been 1st Bn. RSF as does his Medal Rolls Card. By coincidence, my (late) godfather would later become Pipe Major of the RSF and in due course, his son became Pipe-Major of the RHF. Ron, Do you have more information for me about your (late) godfather (P/M RSF) and his son (P/M RHF)? Aad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Abbott Posted 20 November , 2014 Share Posted 20 November , 2014 Aad, I've emailed you. P/M George Stoddart BEM (RSF) and Major Gavin Stoddart MBE BEM (RHF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 October , 2018 Share Posted 7 October , 2018 Hi, i realise this is an old post however my grandfather was in the 1st Bn Charlie Coy, Royal Scots Fusiliers i am presuming the photo's i see above are of his company, & he could be one of the men in the photo's but not sure as he passed long before i was born, and my dad new very little, about his military history, in his soldiers book he listed as served at Home India Burma , Rangoon South Africa - Roberts Heights and then in WW1 this i know as i have his MONS 1914 Star, rosette & his wounded stripes i'm wondering if anyone here can help me with any finding any information about him & where all the unit served. L/Cpl. J. W. Haylock. No.9216 thank you in advance for any help you may offer CavanHaylock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 7 October , 2018 Share Posted 7 October , 2018 (edited) Cavan Welcome! would always recommend having a look at the guides via this link https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/ and I tend to make the suggestion you create a new topic just for him - might get lost here. If you do add the following details so people do not do the same research However there are a few pointers I can make John Wallace Haycock He enlisted in the 3rd Battalion Easy Surrey Regiment on 16/3/1905. This is a Militia unit a bit like the Territorial Army. He was then employed by the GWR at Paddington Goods Depot (I can place him there in 1903). He declares 18y and 8 mths as his age but I think he has added a year (think he was born c. July 1888). Think they were aware as the doc says his apparent age is under 18. Think he may have tried to enlist in the regulars that day as it makes ref to insufficient chest (34 inches). The docs do not say much - mother Jane and elder sister Ethel. He is released to the Royal Scots Fusiliers on 24/10/1906. He is eventually discharged on 18/4/1916 due to "sickness". He is awarded the SIlver War Badge - given to men who were no longer fit for service. The 1911 census puts him with the 1st Battalion RSF in South Africa His medal records show he went to France on 10/10/1914 - he was awarded the 1914 Star with Clasp, British War and Victory Medals. Unfortunately, none of his RSF personal records seem to have survived. So we do not know at the moment, and may never know, when he returned to the Uk. There is no evidence, that I can find yet, that he served in France/Flanders in any other unit than 1 RSF. So worth looking at the war diary for the unit covering the period from Aug 1914 to March 1916. This is available to download from the National Archives for £3.50 from http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352090 edit - Is this his son? http://www.southafricawargraves.org/search/print.php?id=9525 I see he died in Zimbabwe, Rhodesia at the time, in 1960. I see a record of a voyage between Durban, S Africa and Southampton has a John W Haylock on board giving a country of permanent residence as Rhodesia. Age 45 which would fit it. This was on the RMMV Caernavon Castle; a Union Castle line ship Happy hunting! Edited 7 October , 2018 by Mark1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 7 October , 2018 Share Posted 7 October , 2018 Hi Cavan, in addition to Mark's excellent post above, you might like to know that that John Buchan (yes, the chap who wrote The Thirty Nine Steps) wrote a history of the Royal Scots Fusiliers. It is far from perfect - like so many of his historical writings it was written in a hurry and is full of mistakes, but it is all we have at the moment. Copies can be found HERE (and Ebay sometimes have cheaper copies so give that a look). Best wishes, William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 29 October , 2018 Share Posted 29 October , 2018 (edited) Hi Mark, wow! thanks for that, & i shall defiantly follow the avenues you have indicated the silver war bad? is that his wounded stripe, as he was shot through the arm at some stage as well, i have his soldiers small book, particulars of service, as home, India, Burma & then SA at Robert Heights, Pretoria, (Voortrekkerhoogte), then placed on reserve force, for specified period after his service was finished in 1912?, then he was called back for the start of WW1, that's where my info runs dry, other than his 1914 Christmas tin and goodies, in there also the only photo i have which has his date of death as 26/06/1959 in Bulawayo, Rhodesia. Yes the war grave is one of his sons, he is my uncle Charles's Frederick Haylock, Special Services Batalion South African Forces, one of my dad's 5 older brothers that fought in WW2, he unfortunately the only one not coming home, funny thing is only found out who he was by investigating a death brooch in my graddads chocolate box, it was the only thing out of place all the other stuff belonged to my granddad , & so my journey began well thank you again for all your help thank you too William i shall defiantly have a look into the book, for my ever expanding library Kind Regards Cavan Edited 29 October , 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted 29 October , 2018 Share Posted 29 October , 2018 This picture was hanging in the officers mess of 1 RHF when I was serving its of The Royal Scots Fusiliers defending Lock No. 2 on the Mons-Conde Canal at Jemappes on 23 August 1914. By Gilbert Holiday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavan Posted 19 July , 2022 Share Posted 19 July , 2022 On 02/11/2013 at 11:41, mutley said: These photos are great, the chap in question was a Drummer so its possible he is in some of these photos. thanks gain to everyone On 31/10/2013 at 19:28, AndrewThornton said: Here are some photographs from my collection that may be of interest. This is a photograph of the members of one of the platoons of "C" Company, taken at Robert's Heights in Pretoria in 1912. A photograph taken at Robert's Heights at the Trooping the Colour ceremony to commemorate the 21st Fusiliers' defence of The Barrier at the Battle of Inkerman on 5 November 1854. An informal group, again taken at Robert's Heights Here is the informal group picture my grandfather 1st row standing in the middle behind the two sergeants & in last back row 2nd from left L/Cpl John Wallace Haylock 9216 Just now, cavan said: my grandfather first photo 1st row standing in the middle behind the two sergeants & in last photo back row 2nd from left L/Cpl John Wallace Haylock 9216 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavan Posted 31 August , 2022 Share Posted 31 August , 2022 On 31/10/2013 at 19:28, AndrewThornton said: Here are some photographs from my collection that may be of interest. This is a photograph of the members of one of the platoons of "C" Company, taken at Robert's Heights in Pretoria in 1912. A photograph taken at Robert's Heights at the Trooping the Colour ceremony to commemorate the 21st Fusiliers' defence of The Barrier at the Battle of Inkerman on 5 November 1854. An informal group, again taken at Robert's Heights Here is the informal group picture my grandfather L/Cpl John Wallace Haylock 1st row standing 4th from left my grandfather L/Cpl John Wallace Haylock 2nd from left back row On 31/10/2013 at 19:28, AndrewThornton said: Here are some photographs from my collection that may be of interest. This is a photograph of the members of one of the platoons of "C" Company, taken at Robert's Heights in Pretoria in 1912. A photograph taken at Robert's Heights at the Trooping the Colour ceremony to commemorate the 21st Fusiliers' defence of The Barrier at the Battle of Inkerman on 5 November 1854. An informal group, again taken at Robert's Heights Here is the informal group picture my grandfather L/Cpl John Wallace Haylock 1st row standing 4th from left my grandfather L/Cpl John Wallace Haylock 2nd from left back row Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavan Posted 31 August , 2022 Share Posted 31 August , 2022 On 17/03/2014 at 07:25, Ron Abbott said: I'm also interested in the Pipes and Drums of the 1st Bn. Royal Scots Fusiliers. Two of the brothers of one of my ancestors lost their lives in WW1 and one was a piper in 1 RSF, namely L/CPL Adam Horsburgh Porteous (9993). He is mentioned on the following website :- http://www.edinburghs-war.ed.ac.uk/system/files/PDF_gorgie_casualties.pdf Cut and pasted....... "Corp Adam Horsburgh Porteous (23) No. 9993, piper, 1, 2 R. Scots Fusiliers. At the outbreak of the War, he was home on leave from Africa. Sent to France, Aug 1914. Served six years, and was the second piper in his battalion. Wounded three times. DoW 30 Jul 1915, Wharncliffe War Hosp, Sheffield. NMC. Eldest son of Alexander Porteous, carter, & Magdaline Porteous, 6 Downfield Place, late of Dewar Place. His brother, Pte Alexander Porteous, Gordon Hdrs, KiA 6 Sep 1916. EEN 3 Aug 1915 & 4 Oct 1916. TED 7 Aug 1915." He's not mentioned in The Pipes of War by Seton and Grant. The CWGC lists him as having been 1st Bn. RSF as does his Medal Rolls Card. I've searched the various bagpipe tune indices but again there is no mention of him having composed any published tunes. However, given that it would appear that L/CPL Adam Porteous joined the army in 1909 and had been in South Africa prior to going to France in 1914, I wonder if that is him at the left side of the photograph taken in 1912 (the piper with the two overseas service chevrons)? By coincidence, my (late) godfather would later become Pipe Major of the RSF and in due course, his son became Pipe-Major of the RHF. On 17/03/2014 at 07:25, Ron Abbott said: I'm also interested in the Pipes and Drums of the 1st Bn. Royal Scots Fusiliers. Two of the brothers of one of my ancestors lost their lives in WW1 and one was a piper in 1 RSF, namely L/CPL Adam Horsburgh Porteous (9993). He is mentioned on the following website :- http://www.edinburghs-war.ed.ac.uk/system/files/PDF_gorgie_casualties.pdf Cut and pasted....... "Corp Adam Horsburgh Porteous (23) No. 9993, piper, 1, 2 R. Scots Fusiliers. At the outbreak of the War, he was home on leave from Africa. Sent to France, Aug 1914. Served six years, and was the second piper in his battalion. Wounded three times. DoW 30 Jul 1915, Wharncliffe War Hosp, Sheffield. NMC. Eldest son of Alexander Porteous, carter, & Magdaline Porteous, 6 Downfield Place, late of Dewar Place. His brother, Pte Alexander Porteous, Gordon Hdrs, KiA 6 Sep 1916. EEN 3 Aug 1915 & 4 Oct 1916. TED 7 Aug 1915." He's not mentioned in The Pipes of War by Seton and Grant. The CWGC lists him as having been 1st Bn. RSF as does his Medal Rolls Card. I've searched the various bagpipe tune indices but again there is no mention of him having composed any published tunes. However, given that it would appear that L/CPL Adam Porteous joined the army in 1909 and had been in South Africa prior to going to France in 1914, I wonder if that is him at the left side of the photograph taken in 1912 (the piper with the two overseas service chevrons)? By coincidence, my (late) godfather would later become Pipe Major of the RSF and in due course, his son became Pipe-Major of the RHF. those are good conduct stripes, not overseas service chevrons, the chevrons were introduced in WW1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavan Posted 31 August , 2022 Share Posted 31 August , 2022 On 17/03/2014 at 07:25, Ron Abbott said: I'm also interested in the Pipes and Drums of the 1st Bn. Royal Scots Fusiliers. Two of the brothers of one of my ancestors lost their lives in WW1 and one was a piper in 1 RSF, namely L/CPL Adam Horsburgh Porteous (9993). He is mentioned on the following website :- http://www.edinburghs-war.ed.ac.uk/system/files/PDF_gorgie_casualties.pdf Cut and pasted....... "Corp Adam Horsburgh Porteous (23) No. 9993, piper, 1, 2 R. Scots Fusiliers. At the outbreak of the War, he was home on leave from Africa. Sent to France, Aug 1914. Served six years, and was the second piper in his battalion. Wounded three times. DoW 30 Jul 1915, Wharncliffe War Hosp, Sheffield. NMC. Eldest son of Alexander Porteous, carter, & Magdaline Porteous, 6 Downfield Place, late of Dewar Place. His brother, Pte Alexander Porteous, Gordon Hdrs, KiA 6 Sep 1916. EEN 3 Aug 1915 & 4 Oct 1916. TED 7 Aug 1915." He's not mentioned in The Pipes of War by Seton and Grant. The CWGC lists him as having been 1st Bn. RSF as does his Medal Rolls Card. I've searched the various bagpipe tune indices but again there is no mention of him having composed any published tunes. However, given that it would appear that L/CPL Adam Porteous joined the army in 1909 and had been in South Africa prior to going to France in 1914, I wonder if that is him at the left side of the photograph taken in 1912 (the piper with the two overseas service chevrons)? By coincidence, my (late) godfather would later become Pipe Major of the RSF and in due course, his son became Pipe-Major of the RHF. those are good conduct stripes, not overseas service chevrons, the chevrons were introduced in WW1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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