Marcin FELEDZIAK Infantry Regiment 171

[ph0ebus]

Today I was listening to the radio where they were discussing Polish ethnics who had been conscripted into the Imperial German Army.

They were not trusted with Guns !!

I wonder if this was true? It might be worthwhile to put that question in its own thread in the Soldiers or Units subforums. That seems a little shocking to me!

-Daniel

[Martin Feledziak]

The contributor added that his relative ended up being a stretcher bearer and despite arm bands indicating his status he was shot attending to the fallen.

From that day his wife would wear plain black clothes until her death in 1961.

From what I have learned my Polish Ancestors must have been armed.

Clearly Johann "the Pionier" was armed to the teeth in the Argonne Forrest , I suspect he was something to do with Flame throwers too. His boss in company 2 was Reddermann originally a fire fighter in Poznan but turned his skills to spraying flames as a weapon.

And Johann, the Fusilier, was armed too, when they advanced along Hill 304. on 28th June 1917.

The reserve 10th Division were a hardened outfit, even though, this Johann was just 20 years old, they were "Hand Picked" for this assault.

I dare say Andreas was fully kitted too. The Kings Infantry regiment 145 out of Metz even got fancy parade Plumes to wear on their picklehaubs.

So I am not going to pose the question at this time.

I have no idea if any of this is the truth - it is all stuff I have read.

I don't know what my GF was doing as I can't find his unit - it is now really intriguing me. I am desperate to know what he had been doing and how come he got the wound badge.

I am sure I will find out. I have only been at this task six months.

Can I just say that war is and always has been bad but I find Flamethrowers and Poison gas at the top of the list of vileness.

All the other weapons, shells bombs bullets etc are just lower levels of vileness.

[Martin Feledziak]

I was just having a look round metz - and I think this is the Kasern ( Barracks ) for Andreas Feledziak.

The image is current from Street view

The post card is historical from around 1905

Here is the place mark

( You need Google Earth on your computer for it to open the file )

Kings 145 Inf Reg.kmz

 

 

Edited 25 July , 2022 by Martin Feledziak

[Martin Feledziak]

Factoids - From the Janet and Joe - book of Imperial Germany.

Every man in Germany was liable for military service with the exception of some royalty and criminals.

Imperial German Law - ( Wehrordnung ) in 1888.

Recruiting and Musterung -

To facilitate conscription all citizens were categorised by annual class year designated by the year in which they were born

( Jahrgang )

For example the class of 1892 would be in the recruiting process in 1912 for those who were 20 yrs old.

( Jahresklasse ).

Conclusion :-

Johan Feledziak born 1897 and his cousin , my GF

Marcin Feledziak born 1897 would both be 20 and " in play " in 1917.

So Johann goes into the 37th Fusiliers - and gets killed

So would Marcin from the same home location get conscripted to the same local 37th Fusiliers ?

 

EDIT : No, he appears to have ended up with IR171 a unit based many miles from his home.

Edited 25 July , 2022 by Martin Feledziak

[margaretdufay]

So - I am not sure of the year but Marcin Feledziak married Francoise Karas Born 1905 and I think she was from Herne. These are poor details I am aware.

I do know that their first son, My uncle Edouard Feledziak was born in Frankfurt in 1923.

Then their little family migrated to the Northern France Mining city of Douai and My Father, Henryk Feledziak, was born in 1926.

They all became miners in the early years.

Just seen this thread, and had a look at the phone directory for the nord pas de calais, and there are still a few Feledziak's living in the area, is it a very common name?

mags

[Martin Feledziak]

Hi Mags,

The name is fairly unique and I would not expect to see too many. My Grandfather survived WWI and settled in Auby which is near to Douai. He also survived WWII and was very much

involved in Polish underground/ resistance activity.

My Dad was in the Polish air force and came to the UK after WWII - first to the mines in Stirling.

My Last French Aunt died in 2008 and she was our last real link, her children do not speak English and I am poor at French. So ties are now very loose.

[Martin Feledziak]

Thanks to Ken s and Alain Dubis

for their links to theses on line books.

Sadly for me they are in German, However there are some real quality maps and unit formations to be found at the end of each book.

Argonnen

https://archive.org/...tendeswel18olde

http://digi.landesbi...e/AC00634189/1/

Die Tragödie von Verdun, 1916. (1. Teil - Die deutsche Offensivschlacht)

http://digi.landesbi...e/AC06023003/1/

Die Tragödie von Verdun, 1916. (2. Teil - Das Ringen um Fort Vaux)

https://archive.org/...tendeswel02olde

http://digi.landesbi...e/AC05825508/1/

Die Tragödie von Verdun, 1916. (3. und 4. Teil - Die Zermürbungsschlacht)

http://digi.landesbi...e/AC05825519/1/

There are links to all the main WW1 battles.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=204071&hl=

[Martin Feledziak]

The below is from the Verdun book.

It is from March 1916. If I am reading it correctly Johann's 37th Fusiliers are teamed with Infantry Regiment 155 and Reserve Infantry Regiment 37.

They are in the 10th Reserve Division. I have screen grabbed it from a much larger schematic.

[Martin Feledziak]

This is a thought about an issue earlier in this thread.

The question was posed as to German Compulsory service for WW1

"The German attitude to nationality was confusing, and yet in essence fairly simple. If you or your parents had held German nationality, you were German and if you didn't turn up for conscription (whether notified or not) you could/would be arrested as a deserter."

( I wonder if the same applied to WWII )

So following 1918 my GF Marcin married in Germany and their first son was born in Frankfurt in 1923. I do not know when they moved to France but it was before 1926 as my Father has Douai ( France ) on his birth certificate. The family settled into a mining community.

So when 1939 comes round My GF would now be 41 and his sons 16 and 13. I am now starting to understand their perilous situation. I am not sure when their part of France was first occupied but I do remember Father telling me accounts of young men deliberately wounding themselves to avoid forced labour.

It is possible that Grandfather would already be in a type of forced labour as he was working down inside the mines. I do not know what paper work my family held but they would certainly have been questioned by the Occupying Military Police.

I do not think they would have been able to hide their German origins.

GF may also have had to disclose his service with the German Army in the Great War.

What I do know is that GF was heavily connected to the Polish resistance. This would be as a result of the numbers of Ethnic Poles who had also settled in Northern France. Their numbers increasing as the war progressed through to 1945.

They were all in the mining community so obviously networked already.

[Martin Feledziak]

Over the weekend I have been looking at another cousin of my Grandfather.

There are two records for him.

The first report is on page 10004 from 10th November 1915 - Marcin Feledziak from malgow - He and a great number of others are reported missing.

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1014018

The second report is on page 11190 of 2nd February 1916.

He is listed as a member of 4 Kompanie Fusilier regiment No39. not missing - now a Prisoner of war.

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/3574210

I do not know if he survived the war, can anyone tell the birth day in October 1895 ?

39th Fusilier Regiment (Lower Rhineland)
The Niederrheinisches Füsilier-Regt. Nr.39 was formed on 26th January 1818 as the 36. Infanterie-Regiment, which was changed to 39th in 1820. The title Fusilier was added in 1860.

In the Austro-Prussian War of 1866, the regiment fought the Austrians and their South German allies between the Main and Tauber at Uettingen, Rossbrunn and the Bavarians at Helmstadt.In the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71 the regiment fought at the Battle of Gravelotte-St.Privat and the Siege of Metz. In 1891 Archduke Rainer Ferdinand of Austria, a grandson of Emperor Leopold II, Austrian General and Prime Minister and was made colonel in chief.

In 1914 they were garrisoned at Dusseldorf as part f the VII Army Corps. During the First World War they served on the Western Front notably at the Siege of Liege, the Battle of Verdun and the Spring Offensive of 1918.

I have seen that his regiment made up the 50th Division.

[Martin Feledziak]

Interestingly whilst cross checking with one or two names on the lists I found the below gentleman

He is named on both of martins reports - missing and POW however he is also reported dead in March 1916

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1681509

( THEN 2 YEARS LATER )

corrected in 1918 when he is not dead but still a prisoner. Imagine getting those reports as a family.

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/7734109

So it is possible that Martin survived captivity too.

[ph0ebus]

Hi Martin,

I am sure you probably already read this re: the National Archives:

6. First World War 1914-1918

The National Archives hold no lists of First World War enemy PoWs. It may be best to contact another organisation (see section 9).

Lists of names of enemy prisoners and internees were routinely forwarded to the Prisoners of War Information Bureau (PWIB) in London, which in turn informed the International Red Cross Headquarters in Geneva. Unfortunately, bombing in 1940 largely destroyed the lists and other documentation compiled by the Bureau.

However, you can find some related records at The National Archives, including:

• two specimen lists of army, naval and civilian German PoWs in WO 900/45-46: these give the regiment, ship and usually the home address, place of internment, remarks regarding health, and date of transfer to internment in a neutral country
• a summary of the work and history of the Prisoner of War Information Bureau in WO 162/341
• occasional mentions of enemy PoWs by name within the card index of the General Political Correspondence of the Foreign Office: if you find an entry you can often convert it into an FO 383 reference
• files on the employment of enemy PoWs in Britain in NATS 1/567-571
• correspondence on enemy merchant seamen taken prisoner in MT 9 and MT 23

I have my own German POW mystery on my hands now, so should I get any leads I will let you know.

Good luck!

-Daniel

[Martin Feledziak]

Greetings Daniel.

All of your pointers above are new to me.
So they will be tools to help me confirm details.

I have two subjects to research - Martin Feledziak born 1895 (above).
and Josef Feledziak born 1894. Also a 1916 POW. (below)

I know I should be doing something else - But I am fascinated by uncovering history.

[Martin Feledziak]

This is the Church Birth record for

Jozef Feledziak Born 6 July 1894 - He would be my second cousin twice removed.

And 21 years of age when he was reported missing.

page 11711 22 March 1916.

Josef Feledziak - Szelejewo Koschmin.

13 Kompanie Reserve Infantrie Regiment No 6

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/3606478

Then page 13273 of 8th July 1916.

Not missing - POW

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/4025463.

From the the the below details he appears to have been captured in the Verdun sector.

[Martin Feledziak]

I have just noticed that the units for the last two cousins I have mentioned also appear on the same previous plan for Johann.



1st Column 9th Reserve division - Jozef Feledziak (Res Inf Reg No 6)
2nd Column 10th Reserve division - Johann Feledziak (Fus Reg No 37)
4th Column 50th Inf Division - Marcin Feledziak (Fus Reg 39).

I see a theme developing here, all of my Prussian (Polish) relatives, would serve in the Argonne/Verdun sector.

I know Andreas Feledziak 1914 &
Johann Feledziak 1915 were there too.

I suspect - and still looking for more info-
Anton Feledziak Killed 1917 & my GF
Martin Feledziak would be there also.

[Martin Feledziak]

Indexed yesterday 22 May 2014 - Just what I have been looking for - family history clue.!!!

This is major input for me..

This is my Grand Father Martin Feledziak -

post 6 on this thread

It has his correct date of birth and place of birth. Slightly out as it should be Wrotkow. ( Post 1 )

This is the person I was named after..

I always knew him as a kind, coffee drinking, gentle man.

I could never speak to him as he was

always a French person to me. He Skinned rabbits, had an outside toilet, worked down the pit, drank Ricard, smoked Gouloise, and played Ballot.

He died in 1968 when I was 7. He could speak French, German and Polish.

I was a 7 year old only interested in ice cream.

I am sure he did not want his family to know his dark history It would have been forced on him and hidden with shame !!

Please remember he would never talk of this time he hated the war..

He did not even tell my Father... but now I see it..for myself and I feel rewarded for looking too !!

he was attached to 10 Kompanie - Infantrie Regiment 171,

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/8286931

Wiki info below

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/2._Ober-Elsässisches_Infanterie-Regiment_Nr._171

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/39th_Division_(German_Empire)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/115th_Infantry_Division_(German_Empire)

[PFF]

Could your grandfather or his widow applied for a pension?

In either case he would probably have to furnish references with from Old army comrades...?

Hope this helps.

[egbert]

Great find!

Other pictures about IR 171 on goggle

https://www.google.de/search?q=infanterieregiment+171&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=GEqAU5mKD6WZ0AXvvoD4Bw&ved=0CFMQsAQ&biw=1246&bih=643

[Martin Feledziak]

Could your grandfather or his widow applied for a pension?

In either case he would probably have to furnish references with from Old army comrades...?

Hope this helps.

Very interesting question. I have absolutely no idea - firstly I did not know he was a soldier until last October. I am fairly sure that he would not have claimed a pension.

Interestingly an old German soldier from WW2 died in Wolverhampton a couple of years ago. He had been living as a tramp in a tent on the ring road. After his death his relatives were traced and they were given his pension entitlements.

[Martin Feledziak]

Great find!

Other pictures about IR 171 on goggle

https://www.google.de/search?q=infanterieregiment+171&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=GEqAU5mKD6WZ0AXvvoD4Bw&ved=0CFMQsAQ&biw=1246&bih=643

Egbert,

That link gives me many more images than when I do a search..Thanks I shall have a good look later..

I was totally thrilled when his entry appeared.

I was beginning to think that the trail had gone cold.

But now I have his unit information I have a new world of leads to follow.

I have recently been searching through the 1919 records, just like looking for a needle in a haystack.

http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/publication?id=129687&tab=3

and I have even loaded the report for 28 February 1919 this week. However I was just scanning through looking for Fusilier Regiment 37 entries.

I wrongly thought he would be serving with his local Unit.

I never considered an Alsace-Lorraine Unit.

I have seen that most of the 1919 reports give full date of births and regimental information.

The indexers are doing a fantastic job.

They have completed most years apart from 1919.

So there is more to come.

Now I shall try to work out why he was listed as missing.

Martin

[egbert]

...and how do you open the Posen files, which program?

...and you need to find out how on earth he served with an Elsass-Lothringen regiment and not with a Posen province IR 49 or IR149.

[Martin Feledziak]

Egbert when you arrive on the page.

choose the year you want

then the issue from that year.

[Martin Feledziak]

Then click on show publication.. The first time you do this choose internal viewer...

Then when the report opens you can look through the pages.. it is an incredible source of information.

[Martin Feledziak]

Just a few notes about Verlustlisten as above.

I use Google Chrome as my preferred internet browser, but it will not open the viewer, it obviously thinks it a risk.

However if I use Internet Explorer ( Microsoft ) it will let me view all of the pages.

Just remember to allow the file to open and choose their internal viewer.

The early 1915 1916 reports helpfully included full dates of birth ( some just day and month )and soldier origin together with regiment information.

The late 1916 - 1917 reports gave very little information other than the name of the soldier and the misfortune update.

The 1919 reports provide full details again.

[Martin Feledziak]

This appears to be the very building in Colmar. Current street view and historical black and white - Infanterie 171

171 Kasern.kmz