Royal Field Artillery - L/3817 William Fiddis

[Pete V]

Hi Brian,

Thank you for looking into this for me. I suspect that this Edward Stones L/3683 is probably my ancestor based on the evidence that I've previously gathered but it will be difficult to be 100% sure on this without a surviving service record for his re-enslistment. 

Interestingly Edward did have an elder brother called Joseph who I believe may have enlisted in 171st County palatine RFA on the 18th May 1915 (his record survives). They were both from Little Bolton and I suspect that they may have enlisted at the same time, having both been discharged from the army a few months previously. Joseph is mentioned in another thread on this forum entitled "Bdr. LW Hogg RGA", though I think he may have been mistaken for another Joseph Stones there.

Thanks again for taking the time to help out,

Pete 

Edited 22 December , 2021 by Pete V

[brianmorris547]

I remembered the name Joseph Stones from a previous thread, I will check that old one out. 

Brian

[Pete V]

Confusingly there appears to have been two Joseph Stones working as Iron Moulders in Bolton at the time who were of a similar age! So I've not been able to confirm for sure whether this is Edwards brother.

Pete

[brianmorris547]

I've linked the Bdr Hogg thread to this one.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/204658-bdr-lw-hogg-rga/#comment-2011808

Going through the Rolls of Honour in the Bolton papers. Will add later

EDIT:

From the 1911 Census we have:

1. Joseph Stones - Age 29 - Single - Labourer in Iron Founders - 22 Plover St, Great Lever, Bolton.

2. Joseph Stones - Age 19 - Single - Moulders Apprentice Iron Works - 13 Tomlin Sq Tonge, Bolton.

3. Joseph Stones - Age 17 - Single - Moulder - and brother Edward age 14, cotton worker - 53 Hulme St, Little Bolton.

4. Joseph Stones - Age 15 - Single - cotton worker - 314 Bolton Rd, Kearsley.

There is a Joseph Stones named on the Victoria Hall ROH in the papers on 13/11/1915 serving in England. (This was I believe something like a Sunday School). Attached are the Rs OH from the Globe Iron Works in the papers on 28/04/1916 (who I think is Joseph Stones No 2 but it might be your man No 3) and Bolton Parish Church in the papers on 04/12/1915 and 14/04/1916. Pte Joseph Stones on the Bolton Parish Church ROH is for RFA Other Batteries (i.e. not 3 East Lancs Brigade - The Bolton Artillery). 

Just to confuse matters further the Sole Leg for Joseph Stones 292102, who was k in a on 27/09/1917, is named in the RSE as Widow Elizabeth. He is shown on SDGW as residing and enlisting at Farnworth. He may be the Joseph Stones from Primrose Rd Kearsley in Rally to the Flag, Primrose Rd is nearer Farnworth than Kearsley. There is yet another Joseph Stones on the 1911 Census age 13 at Little Lever (near Farnworth).

There was a marriage in Bolton in the June Q of 1917 of Joseph Stones and Lily Green.  

Edited 29 December , 2021 by brianmorris547
additional info

[Pete V]

Hi Brian,

Number 3 is my man, although the family had moved to Charles street in Little Bolton by the outbreak of war. My great grandfather Edward is listed at the address in the 1918 electoral register as an absent voter qualifying through serving as a current member of the armed forces (NM). I've not been able to find Joseph yet on the register to indicate whether he may have still been in the forces at the end of the war.

I agree with you that I think I have got the wrong Joseph Stones and that my previous post is incorrect, as the individual who enlisted in 171st Brigade was from Tonge, which would appear to make number 2 a more likely candidate. Additionally in the last few days, I think I've found a Joseph living at the address shown in the service records into the early 1920s, which doesn't tally as I know my ancestor Joseph died of Spanish Flu around 1920.

Interestingly Edward and Joseph's father John Stones enlisted in the LNL regiment at the outbreak of war having previously served in the 3rd Lancashire Fusiliers in the 1890s. Having quickly been discharged he reenlisted in the King's Liverpool Regiment and went on to serve in India with the 23rd NW Rifle Brigade for a year and a half, returning to England in 1917 at the ripe old age of 47!

Pete

[brianmorris547]

This 1910 map shows the Parish Church St Peter's bottom right and the Victoria Hall on the left near the Market Place. The iron works on Kay St is just off the map but at the top you can see that Kay St and Hulme St were next to each other. Kay St was also in walking distance from Joseph Stones No 2 in Tonge. See the Bdr Hogg thread which says that the Joseph Stones on the iron works ROH was L/24079 Dvr Joseph Stones who joined the CPRA in Bolton in May 1915 (no trace of him in Rally to the Flag). Alan 24 asked me if there was someone named Booth on the ROH but there is not.

EDIT: The Service Record for L/24079 Joseph Stones of Hengist St shows that he married in 1912 and he went on munitions work to The Globe Iron Works. (The soldier named Booth above worked on Pembroke Dock). A later address for wife Bertha Stones is given as Dunstan St. Both Hengist St and Dunstan St are in Tonge Fold so I think L/24079 was probably Joseph Stones no 2 from Tonge Fold.

Brian

Edited 26 December , 2021 by brianmorris547
additional info

[brianmorris547]

Pete

I have refreshed my memory about this one. I think I agree with you now.

WO 364 (Ancestry Sto 22472)    John Stones, 12 Charles St (father of Joseph and Edward).

WO 363 (Ancestry Sto 42874)    Joseph Stones, 12 Charles St, moulder, enlisted into the Loyal North Lancs on 08/09/1914 age 19. On 02/10/1914 he was transferred to 7 Bn LNL. On 21/11/1914 he was discharged under para 392 as Not Likely to become an efficient soldier.

WO 364 (Ancestry Sto 22555 and Sto 22559)    Joseph Stones (above). The reason for his discharge shown as deafness and religion shown as RC. He was discharged from Tidworth.

WO 364 (Ancestry Sto 22041)    Edward Stones, 12 Charles St, Attestation mentions Parish of St Mary's, Collier, enlisted at Bolton 05/10/1914 and assessed suitable for RAMC, age 19. RAMC 42803 until 29/12/1914 transferred to RFA B/113 Brigade with number 90748. 26/02/1915 Discharged physically unfit.

It then appears that Edward re enlisted into the County Palatine RFA about March 1915. His MRIC shows Egypt 30/11/1915. (31 Div). There is a hospital admission on 25/07/1917. MH 106/249 adm 149 FA with Scabies shows Unit as B/165 Bde, age 20, 2 years 5 months service and one year eight months with Field Force. Religion RC.

The Joseph Stones on the Victoria Hall ROH and the Bolton Parish Church ROH is not likely to be your man since the family was RC. Victoria Hall was a Methodist Church and Meeting Hall in those days. I suspect this was:

WO 363 (Ancestry Sto 42766)    Joseph Stones, 13 Tomlin Sq, Tonge Fold enlisted 5 Loyal North Lancs on 07/07/1910 age 18 and later

WO 363 (Ancestry Sto 72799)    Joseph Stones, 64 Hengist St, moulder, enlisted CPRA 18/05/1915 Bolton age 23 with previous service in LNL. 

He is also the Joseph Stones on the Globe Ironworks ROH.

St Mary's RC church and school can be seen at the top of the map I posted, directly above the Market Hall. It is now the site of the Holiday Inn. Part of the church survives in the hotel. With the library being closed yesterday I called at the hotel but I was told that there are no surviving RsOH for the church or school. The library might have them I will ask the historian next week.

EDIT: The Bolton Journal 20/11/1914 printed a photograph of Bolton Lads of 7 LNL at Tidworth.

Brian

Edited 30 December , 2021 by brianmorris547
additional info

[Pete V]

Brian,

That's a great photo, thank you for posting it here. I can't spot Joseph in this from my initial inspection but it's interesting to think that these men would most likely have been his acquaintances. Do you know whether 7 LNL was mainly made up of Bolton recruits or a wider spread of men from Lancashire?

Im not sure which battalion of the LNL John Stones was based in for his short stint with the regiment, but he appears to have been discharged due to having very poor vision. For some reason he went to Liverpool to reenlist (joining the Kings Liverpool Regiment) and ultimately end up serving in the Isle of Man and India with the 23rd (North Western) Rifle Brigade. He had previously served with the 3rd Lancashire Fusiliers which would probably have been in the 1880s or 1890s but I've not found any record of this yet.

Pete

[brianmorris547]

Pete

5 Bn LNL was Bolton's TF local Bn and the Reserve Bns 2/5, 3/5 and 4/5 were raised in Bolton in 1915. In the Service Bns it was 10 LNL that was 75% Bolton men, according to the Newspapers. 112 Infantry Brigade, 37 Div. (WDs 10 LNL WO 95/2538 and 112 IB WO 95/2535). 

Brian