When did the Great War become the First World War?

[Kitchener's Bugle]

The answer to this was on tonights QI but for those who did not see Stephen Fry's explanation, would you like to hazard a guess or perhaps you might actually know?

[Seany]

Presumably not until there was a second one - I have no idea but will guess at about 1950

Wiki says september 1914 but in general terms or in a book title 1920 so what do I know

[Anneca]

I may be wrong but was the term for the 1914/1918 war simply "The War" until the Americans became involved and it became the Great War? Presumably it became WW1 when WW2 began. I do not mind being corrected if I am incorrect.

Anne

[Kitchener's Bugle]

The term "Great War" was actually first used to describle the Napoleonic War.

[BottsGreys]

I have many period pieces from the United States which indicate it was widely known here as the "World War" or "World's War". In the 1930 U.S. Census, it was asked if the respondent was a veteran and if so, of which conflict. Certain initials were noted by the enumerator to indicate the war, with "WW" for World War being entered for WWI.

Chris

[Kitchener's Bugle]

Hi Chris I can say that an American did have a hand in!

[scottmarchand]

A while ago at work we had an old newspaper from the 1930's that referred to 'world war one', a bit prescient perhaps. I'll see if I can find it, we were surprised, presuming that the 1 and 2 distinctions would at least be from the start of 1939.

edit: not the one I was thinking of, but pretty early:

http://www.archives.com/genealogy/images/world_war_2_fairbanks.png

[4thGordons]

I remember reading an article (I believe in The Times) from the very early 1920s which referred to the war as the First World War - the implication was clear.... there would be another one. I will go in search of the reference.

Edit: a quick glance at some notes shows The term "First World War" was used in 1920 by Lt-Col à Court Repington, in his book "The First World War 1914-18" (a two volume work)

Chris

Edited 6 May , 2013 by 4thGordons

[b3rn]

From an Australian perspective, based on newspaper mentions... http://wraggelabs.com/shed/time/the_great_war-2011-08-16.html

[eairicbloodaxe]

Fascinating! The question is why did they feel the need to add the first so early on? Was it done by the battle naming committee people?

The victory medal calls it the great war for civilisation... and that was 1919/20.

Regards

Ian

[b3rn]

Had there been other wars that could have been considered to have encompassed the world? Perhaps that's the motivation for some calling it the first 'World War' before the second kicked off.

[Ron Clifton]

Class WO33 at the National Archives has several files of printed copies of telegrams relating to the "European War" as early as 1915.

Ron

[bill24chev]

Using the term "First World War" does not necessarily mean that its use implied a second world conflict would occur.

WW1 encompassed Europe, Africa, the Middle East and the Far East and Pacific and could therefore be regarded as the first war to rage simultaneously around the world. With combatants coming from every continent.

I appreciate that there have been previous wars that have involved military actions in Europe, the Americas and the Far East but these usually involved only Gt Britain & France with some local allies such as Colonial Militias, Native Americans or soldiers from the Indian Sub Continent.

[David Filsell]

It occurs to me that calling it the The Great War, which I tend to, also left unintended room for The Greater War and the The Greatest War.

[Steven Broomfield]

I never watch QI (I find Saint Stephen slightly insufferable) so I have no idea what the answer is. However, are we to suppose that the programme was correct? Forgive any scepticism on my part, but I'm unsure I'd accept it as an arbiter of fact.

[arboskittler]

Presumably, if asked (around 1920) what conflict a man had fought in, he may have thought for a moment and then said something like "You know, that big war in Europe, that Great War". Maybe it was also called the World War (for obvious reasons) but WW1 does seem odd............after all we never had Jaws 1 or Rocky 1 films

Andy.

[Tom Morgan]

The Great War and the First World War are the same war. They've always been the same war. One didn't "become" the other. So the question, "When did the Great War become the First World War?" doesn't make sense. So there.

Tom

[centurion]

The first use of The First World War appears to be in 1914 by the philosopher Ernst Haeckel: "There is no doubt that the course and character of the feared "European War" ... will become the first world war in the full sense of the word."

From about 1915 the phrase Great European War was used increasingly (however the Revolutionary and Napoleonic War was also called The Great European War), this became just The Great War. In the early 1930s Laurence Stalling published "The First World War: A Photographic History" He claimed that he used the phrase First Word War because variations on the Great War had already been used for the Revolutionary and Napoleonic War. A film using documentary archive films was edited by Stalling and released world wide in 1935. It was called "The First World War".

Graphical analysis indicates that the use of First World War overtook The Great War in 1939/40. http://books.google....s=0&smoothing=0

I'm sorry Tom but you are using the incorect orifice. The 7 years war was once "The Great War " as was the Napoleonic War (I've a 2 volume history of "The Great War" published in the 1880s on my shelves and it doesn't mention Mons once - probably something to do with P M Hart )

[John_Hartley]

I reckon no-one has yet bettered seany's comment at post #2. The common reference to a "first" could not have been until after the "second" - as in the Tudor Queen Elizabeth just being Queen Elizabeth until 1953. I suppose the exception would be if there was anyone propounding the view in the 20/30s that another war was inevitable and the 1914/18 conflict was the "first" in that sense.

But, seeing as we're going off on a tangent discussing the phrase the "Great War", was this not an abbreviation of an early call to arms for the "Great War for Civilisation" in 1914/15?

[centurion]

I reckon no-one has yet bettered seany's comment at post #2. The common reference to a "first" could not have been until after the "second" - as in the Tudor Queen Elizabeth just being Queen Elizabeth until 1953. I suppose the exception would be if there was anyone propounding the view in the 20/30s that another war was inevitable and the 1914/18 conflict was the "first" in that sense.

But, seeing as we're going off on a tangent discussing the phrase the "Great War", was this not an abbreviation of an early call to arms for the "Great War for Civilisation" in 1914/15?

So explain Stalling's book and film of 1935

One could also argue that there had already been two world wars before 1914. The 7 years (fought in Europe, North America, the Caribbean and the Indian sub continent) and the Revolutionary and Napoleonic (fought in Europe, North and South America, Africa and Asia)

[Gareth Davies]

Centurion, you are confusing the First World War and the first world war.

[centurion]

No I'm, not. although I think John may be

Stallings book was entitled The First World War. The 1914/18 war was a world war whether it was the first or the third is open to argument.

[Gareth Davies]

Sorry to be a bore but in the first sentence of this quote you use both terms.

The first use of The First World War appears to be in 1914 by the philosopher Ernst Haeckel: "There is no doubt that the course and character of the feared "European War" ... will become the first world war in the full sense of the word."

[centurion]

Sorry to be a bore but in the first sentence of this quote you use both terms.

Yes so?

[Gareth Davies]

You use the use of the first world war as evidence of the first use of The First World War. They are different, use of the lower case expression does not prove first use of the phrase with capital letters. Hence my suggestion that you are confusing the two terms.