17107BM Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Hello all. Any help on the identification of these gents would be realy welcome. I believe the name of the soldier to the right of the photo is Enoch Hollyoak of Oldbury Birmingham. But. I'm sure the the soldier centre of photo has the look of a brother? As does the soldier with the Bugle and the man to his left... There are other pic's which i will post up. Thanks in advance for any help. Cheers. G.K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 13 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2013 A photo would be helpful if it were possible to post......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Have you checked the size of the image that you are trying to upload? I think 250mb max. is allowed. Regards, Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 13 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2013 and And Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 13 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Sory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 13 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Also. Pals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 13 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2013 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 The portrait is of a Rifleman, possibly Rifle Brigade, the group of lads have a badge similar in style to that of the Rifle Brigade, but the buttons appear to be brass which would be against the RB tradition, but possibly they have yet to receive their black buttons and join the "Chosen Men". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 13 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2013 By look of the soldier in this shot, this does not seem to be a aid post! But where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 13 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2013 T8HANTS. Who were the 'Chosen Men' Is my research chap one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 Your standing man to the right has a very fair chance of being the same one as in the portrait. The Rifle Brigade was one of the elite regiments in the British army, and all those who wore the black buttons, considered themselves a cut above standard heavy infantry. They also rejoiced in the distinction Rifleman rather than Private. For the evolution of the Rifle Brigade traditions you have to go back to the Napoleonic era, where a Chosen man was about the equivalent to a Lance Corporal. I used the term tongue-in-cheek to show they may have had the good fortune to be RB's. The RB's encouraged their men to think for themselves and act independently, which did not always endure thm to the more traditionally minded, although scope for this independace was very restricted during the Great War. Here is the RB's ode to the rifle. THE RIFLE Given to the Guards Brigade to drill with, and the Rifle Brigade to kill with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 13 April , 2013 Share Posted 13 April , 2013 There is an Enoch Holyoake who served with RAOC and 1st Battalion South Staffs from Oldbury. KIA 28 March 1917. Perhaps he served with the Rifle Brigade first, the second picture has black buttons and a very short shoulder title. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 14 April , 2013 Share Posted 14 April , 2013 Your standing man to the right has a very fair chance of being the same one as in the portrait. I'm sure it is the same man in both pictures, wearing the same tunic which is creased in exactly the same places. I don't think the third photo is WW1. It has a WW2-ish look in terms of his hairstyle and the quality of the print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 14 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2013 Hello all. Blackblue, our man was indeed KIA in March 1917. Do you know where? If it is possible, the Family of Enoch Hollyoak would like to find his final resting place and pay there respects. There is Memorial to the lads, but where, the family are not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 14 April , 2013 Share Posted 14 April , 2013 From the Commonwealth War Graves Commission: HOLYOAKE, ENOCH Rank: Private Service No: 32617 Date of Death: 28/03/1917 Age: 20 Regiment/Service: South Staffordshire Regiment 1st Bn. Panel Reference: Bay 6. Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL Additional Information: Son of Albert and Sarah Jane Holyoake, of 5, Queen St., Oldbury, Birmingham. You can read about the ARRAS MEMORIAL on the CWGC website here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 14 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2013 CGM. a BIG thankyou. Is this the start of the Battle of Arras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 14 April , 2013 Share Posted 14 April , 2013 I'm afraid I really can't help with an answer to your question. Others who know far more than me will be able to help if they see this thread. Sadly, the Arras Memorial is for those with no known grave but the family can visit the Memorial to see his name there. CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 14 April , 2013 Share Posted 14 April , 2013 Have you got access to Ancestry? There is a Medal Index Card for Enoch Holyoake: Army Ordnance Corps, South Staffordshire Regiment Regimental Number: 015574, 32612 The Regimental Number 32612 does not match the CWGC number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 14 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2013 Thanks CGM. Here is a picture of his proud father. Many thanks to the family, for letting me post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 14 April , 2013 Share Posted 14 April , 2013 We should never forget the families of the men who we research. Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919 has Enoch as Private 32612 1st Battalion South Staffordshire Regiment. Birthplace: Oldbury, Worcs Enlisted: Oldbury Date died: 28 March 1917 How died: Killed in action Theatre of war: France & Flanders Supplementary Notes: FORMERLY 015574, R.A.O.C. ~~~~ The Regimental Number is 32612 again. Does the family have his medals? or anything else which has his regimental number? The problem of the difference between the CWGC regimental number and that found on the MIC and Soldiers Died needs to be resolved. It could just be a transcription error by the CWGC. CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 15 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2013 Hello CGM. I will be having another chat with them later this week, so will post up anything new. Thanks for your replies. Cheers G.K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest harri Posted 19 April , 2013 Share Posted 19 April , 2013 I would like to thank all those who have been involved in passing on information on about Enoch Hollyoake, South Staffordshire Reg. 32612 as he was my great uncle. Unfortunately the family do not have his medals and I am in the process of trying to track them down. Enoch died at Arras on 27th March although the official Arras commencement date was 9th April, and I wondered if anyone has any information of events prior to the 9th or could point me in the direction of where I can find the info. out. Many Thanks harri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 19 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 April , 2013 Hello harri. Glad you decided to join the Forum. Your in the best place to find the right dirction for your research. I'm sure there are some South Staff Lads that can point you into the best place to post. G.k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoch beard Posted 15 May , 2013 Share Posted 15 May , 2013 post 6 is 2nd lt william hobday dcm and bar of the rifle brigade, have seen the picture before in the black country bugle cwgc details http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/28722/HOBDAY,%20WILLIAM%20EDWARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 15 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 15 May , 2013 Hello enoch beard. A little confused over the post number? Is it the image of the lone soldier posted at 09.20pm? Or one of the chaps in the Group photo? Idid post an unknown Gent at 09.36pm. at the on the same night as the rest. Thanks for any help. Cheers. G.K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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