jacksdad Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Morning all. Does anyone have any information on the action that took place in the morning of the 8th October 1918 when the New Zealanders made the advance from Crevecoeur to the D960. what tank crew was involved? was this the second ever tank on tank action? 2nd Rifles (2nd Battn 3rd NZRB) made the final objective and were attacked by two tanks as the following war diary entry records: “A critical development occurred on the left flank in front of “D” Coy. Just after they had reached their objective. Two of our old tanks converted by the Hun and repainted carrying Lewis guns also converted to take German S.A>A> appeared coming along the road line from WAMBAIX. They were both female tanks, and as our artillery barrage had died down practically on reaching the objective the situation of this Company was unspeakable, as they had not yet started to dig in. Many plucky men and Lewis gunners kept firing at the tanks until they were 150 yards off. One man in particular, Rflmn R C Ramsey, did very gallaint work (See appendix ‘D’) fortunately at this juncture two of our own male tanks released from the mopping up of SERANVILLERS came upon the scene through H.20.b. and 21.a., behind the line of trees on the road, and laid out both of the Bosche tanks in quick succession and saved an awkward situation. The names of the commanders of these tanks were 2nd Lieuts F Clarke and H H Sherratt ( see appendix E)” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin W Taylor Posted 8 April , 2013 Share Posted 8 April , 2013 Roger From a look at the Tank Corps' Regimental History it would seem that there were several German tanks counterattacking at different places on the 8th and it was tanks of 12th Battalion Tank Corps which were responsible for their undoing. Please see the file below from the 12th TC war diary. Clarke and Sherratt were awarded the MC - they may be worth looking up. I'm no expert on how often there were cases of tank-on-tank actions in general however. Kind regards Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted 9 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 9 April , 2013 Excellent - thanks Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17tankman Posted 9 April , 2013 Share Posted 9 April , 2013 Colin Yes it was rare for Tank v Tank. The time you have stated it was probably Ex-British Tanks changed to German Colours that were fighting our own tanks. The Germans used broken down or captured tanks to form their tank sections as their own inventions were too big and cumbersome. 17tankman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 17 September , 2018 Share Posted 17 September , 2018 I am french and I am interested by this story. On october 2018, we commemorate the centenary of the "Battle of Niergnies-Forenville-Wambaix". So I search all informations or photos about JB WALTERS, R CAMPBELL, N CARMICHAEL, WARSAP, AR MARTELL, JS WRIGHT, 2nd lt CLARK, Capt ROE, DH RICHARDSON and 2Lt SHERRATT from the 12th Batallion of Tank Corps. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 17 September , 2018 Share Posted 17 September , 2018 51 minutes ago, Arnaud Gabet said: I am french and I am interested by this story. On october 2018, we commemorate the centenary of the "Battle of Niergnies-Forenville-Wambaix". So I search all informations or photos about JB WALTERS, R CAMPBELL, N CARMICHAEL, WARSAP, AR MARTELL, JS WRIGHT, 2nd lt CLARK, Capt ROE, DH RICHARDSON and 2Lt SHERRATT from the 12th Batallion of Tank Corps. Thank you Arnaud I will have a look to see what I can find. But in the mean time I strongly recommend that you start a new thread in the Soldiers area of the forum, that way you are likely to get more help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 17 September , 2018 Share Posted 17 September , 2018 JB WALTERS, MC for 1 Oct 18. R CAMPBELL He was the OC of A Coy, 12th Bn. He got the DSO for his action on 8 Oct 18. N CARMICHAEL Commanded L8 Lukeoie III, A Coy WARSAP Commanded L9 Lighning III, A Coy AR MARTELL Commanded L7 Looter, A Coy JS WRIGHT Commanded L6 Lilly, A Coy 2nd lt CLARK Commanded L46. Cant ROE Commanded L16 Lion, A Coy DH RICHARDSON Commanded C Coy. MC for Aug 17 in F Bn. 2Lt SHERRATT L49, C Coy. Got the MC for 8 Oct 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 17 September , 2018 Share Posted 17 September , 2018 (edited) Thank you Gareth, i'am just find Harold Howe Sherratt (born 1894 Congleton), Frederick Robert Warsap (born ? 11.10.1893 Northwood), Charles Bertram de la MARE (Birkenhead), Donald Hickling RICHARDSON (03.02.1893 Nottingham- 1977 Torbay) I continue to search the other persons Edited 17 September , 2018 by Arnaud Gabet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin W Taylor Posted 17 September , 2018 Share Posted 17 September , 2018 Arnaud The citations for the MC for Sherratt and Clarke are here: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31480/supplement/9773 and here: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31480/supplement/9773 Regards Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 18 September , 2018 Share Posted 18 September , 2018 Thank you very much Colin, but it's the same document, could you say me what are the references of the MC for Clarke. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 18 September , 2018 Share Posted 18 September , 2018 Who is captain Rowe or Roe who leaded L 16 "Lion" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 18 September , 2018 Share Posted 18 September , 2018 Hi, The only likely candidate for WARSAP is a Frederick Robert Warsap. Image source: The National archives - file WO 338/20/5 His service file is held by the National Archives - see here. Prior to being commissioned his medal index card indicates that he served overseas with the 8th Battalion of the Hampshire Regiment as a sergeant (service number 997). In a nominal roll of the 1/8 Bn Hampshire Regiment (Princess Beatrice's Isle of Wight Rifles) that was published in the Isle of Wight County Press of 24th July 1915 under the heading of "Proceeding Overseas" he is shown as a sergeant serving with 'A' Company. I have a copy of the newspaper article on my hard drive, but don't recall where I sourced it from. Without getting a copy of his service file from the National Archives you can reasonably date when he joined the Territorial Force by looking at men from the 8th Battalion whose records are more readily available online: 982 Galloway - attested 10th October 1910 983 Groves - attested 19th October 1910 997 1000 Schubert - attested 17th January 1911 1002 Jolliffe - attested 27th January 1911 The 1/8th Battalion were first sent overseas to serve in Gallipoli. He appears to have been commissioned with effect from 30th March 1917. Images sourced from the London Gazette In the 1911 census he appears to be a 17 year old analytical chemist (born in Newport, Isle of Wight) living with his parents (James Lovell Warsap and Eleanor Victoria Warsap [nee Spencer - marriage certificate, Ancestry link here]) living in Northwood, Isle of Wight. Frederick survived the war, and appears to have died in hospital in Northampton on 18th January 1964. It appears that he married his wife (Muriel Ellen Perkins) as a Tank Corps Captain in London on 27th February 1919 - marriage certificate on Ancestry here. It looks like they may have returned to the IoW to live though, as looking for children with the surname of Warsap with a mothers (maiden) name of Perkins on Ancestry you get these results: Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 18 September , 2018 Share Posted 18 September , 2018 Thank you very much Chris. Regards. Arnaud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 19 September , 2018 Share Posted 19 September , 2018 Hi Arnaud, Image source: The London Gazette If you have access to Ancestry.co.uk someone has created a family tree with Ronald in it - link. Born: 5 Sep 1884 Seaside Cottage, Campbelltown, Argyllshire. Parents - James and Agnes Mary (nee White) Married: 23 Sep 1915 Holy Trinity, Chelsea, England to Muriel Mary Scale Died: 19 Feb 1957 in St Thomas' Hospital, Lambeth, London Buried: St Mael Ruba Ruin's Church Cemetery, Craignish, Argyll, Scotland Children: Una Mary (born 1916) and Ian James (born 1922) In the 1939 Register he is living with his wife in 12 Elton Road, Bristol His Medal Index Card shows: Images sourced from Ancestry.co.uk - WW1 medal card collection Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 19 September , 2018 Share Posted 19 September , 2018 Thank you very much Chris Arnaud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 19 September , 2018 Share Posted 19 September , 2018 Hi, Moving back to JB Walters, from the London Gazette, his Military Cross citation is... His service file seems to be held in the National Archives - see here. In the absence of seeing that record, his medal index card shows that he was commissioned with effect from 24th March 1917. Image source: Ancestry.co.uk - WW1 medal index card collection It would seem that in the 1911 census he was an unmarried 18 year old (living with his parents [James Walters and Ann Bentley Walters + siblings] in Trentham. Stoke-on-Trent). The record says that he was born in Fenton, Staffordshire and at the time he was a secretary in a (limited liability company) bread bakery. His father is recorded as being the managing director of bread bakery, so it would seem that James was working in a business that his father created. The record shows that James had been married to his wife for 18 years. It would seem that his birth was registered in the 2nd quarter of 1893 in the Registration District of Stoke on Trent. An Ann Bentley Dumelow seems to have married a James Walters in the June quarter of 1892 in the registration district of Stoke on Trent. It would appear that James married in 1915 Image source: Ancestry.co.uk There is a National Probate record which reads... WALTERS James Bentley of Royston 125 Brook-road Trentham Stoke-upon-Trent died 26 May 1950 at the Princess Hospital le Vauguiedor Guernsey Probate Birmingham 20 February to Alice Walters widow James Dearden Walters air traffic control officer and Harry Charles Walters import agent. Effects £8319 8s. 8d. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 20 September , 2018 Share Posted 20 September , 2018 Thank you for your important help Chris. You are very efficient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 21 September , 2018 Share Posted 21 September , 2018 (edited) Hi, "N Carmichael" would appear to be Norman Carmichael (Machine Gun Corps) in the record below. The Norman Scott Carmichael has some records which show his overseas service was only with the Royal Army Medical Corps. Image source: The National Archives - file WO 338/4/3 At the National Archives his service file is here. His Medal Index Card, and medal roll indicate that he originally served overseas as a sergeant with the 21st Battalion King's Royal Rifle Corps (number C/12026), before being transferred to the MGC/Tank Corps (renumbered to 104391), and then being commissioned with the Tank Corps with effect from 27th July 1917. Image source: Ancestry.co.uk - WW1 Medal Index Card Collection Image source: Ancestry.co.uk -WW1 Medal Roll collection With the KRRC, it would appear that he was awarded the Military Medal. Unfortunately, a central record of citations relating to these medals no longer exists. Image source:: Findmypast Looking at just a couple of KRRC men that have readily accessible online service records, with numbers near to his C/12026 number, it seems that Norman may have joined up in October 1915. C/12020 Buglass - joined 16th October 1915 C/12022 Bowman - joined 22nd October 1915 C/12025 Barker - joined 23rd October 1915 C/12026 C/12032 Greenhill - joined 8th October 1915 C/12035 Gill - joined 13th October 1915 Hopefully, a KRRC specialist will be able to clarify. The nearest service papers I saw for his MGC/Tank Corps 104391 number were for 104303 Cosstick; 104318 Hunter; and 104358 English - all of whom transferred into the MGC on 17th May 1917. I didn't see anything that I could use to build a genealogical picture that I would be 100% confident about. There is the address of "South Linton, Morpeth" on his Medal Index Card. That might make him (in the 1939 Register) the farmer (born 3rd July 1896) living with his wife (Barbara) in North Linton, Morpeth. If that were to be the correct, Norman Carmichael, then He appears to have married a Barbara Jackson in the Registration District of Morpeth in 1929, and possibly had children Lora, Norman and Mary. In the 1901 census he would appear to be the 4 year old (born in Widdrington) living in Ellington (Registration District of Morpeth) with his widowed grandmother, (and 6 of her children). Linton Colliery, Village, Ellington, Morpeth, Northumberland First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth place Occupation Mary Carmichael Head Widow Female 72 Bellingham, Northumberland Working (Housekeeper) Thomas Carmichael Son Single Male 47 Rothbury, Northumberland Working On Farm William Carmichael Son Single Male 44 Rothbury, Northumberland Working On Farm Andrew Carmichael Son Single Male 42 Rothbury, Northumberland Working On Farm Rob Carmichael Son Single Male 38 Rothbury, Northumberland Working On Farm Jane Carmichael Daughter Single Female 36 Rothbury, Northumberland Working Servant James Heer Carmichael Son Single Male 30 Widdrington, Northumberland Working On Farm Norman Carmichael Grand Son Single Male 4 Widdrington, Northumberland Marg Metcalfe Servant Single Female 22 Morpeth, Northumberland Gen Servant Domestic Jane Redhead Sister-In-Law Widow Female 73 Northumberland Retired In the 1911 census... South Linton Ellington Morpeth, Ellington, Northumberland First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth place Occupation William Carmichael Head Single Male 55 Rothbury Burn Foot Northumberland Farmer Andrew Carmichael Brother Single Male 54 Rothbury Burn Foot Northumberland Farmer Robert Carmichael Brother Single Male 49 Rothbury Burn Foot Northumberland Farmer Jane Dunn Sister Married Female 46 Rothbury Burn Foot Northumberland House Keeper Norman Carmichael Nephew - Male 14 South Linton Widdrington Northumberland School Joseph Dunn Nephew - Male 6 Alnwick Northumberland- Florence Pamley Servant Single Female 21 Penrith Cumberland General Servant Domestic There is a death register record for a Norman Carmichael (born 3rd July 1896) who died in 1984. That ties back to a probate record which reads: "CARMICHAEL, Norman of Morlich House North Linton Farm Linton Morpeth Northumberland died 10 May 1984" I haven't worked out who his parents might have been Regards Chris Edited 23 September , 2018 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 21 September , 2018 Share Posted 21 September , 2018 Thank you very much Chris. The search is almost achieved. Congratulations ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 21 September , 2018 Share Posted 21 September , 2018 (edited) Hi, AR MARTELL appears to be Arthur Reginald Martell. Image source: The National Archives - file WO 338/13/12 His service file is at the National Archives here. The London Gazette shows that he was commissioned to the Heavy Branch Machine Gun Corps (from which the Tank Corps was formed) on 27th June 1917. His Medal Index Card shows that he only served overseas with the Tank Corps, arriving in France on 5th January 1918. Image sourced from Ancestry.co.uk - WW1 medal index card collection The London Gazette also shows that he relinquished his commission on the completion of his service in June 1920. In the 1911 census, he is living in Southampton with his parents at the same address shown on his medal card: Address: 80, Above Bar, Southampton, Hampshire Name Relation to Head Age Gender Marital Status Years Married Occupation Birth Place Arthur George Martell Head 60 Male Married Jeweller Maker Southampton, Hampshire Emily Louisa Martell Wife 49 Female Married 30 Southampton, Hampshire Grace Winfred Martell Daughter 26 Female Single County Council Schools Southampton, Hampshire Emily Gertrude Martell Daughter 25 Female Single County Council Schools Southampton, Hampshire Arthur Reginald Martell Son 22 Male Single Excise and Customs Southampton, Hampshire Douglas Walter Martell Son 19 Male Single Jeweller Southampton, Hampshire Nellie Iris Martell Daughter 17 Female Single Southampton, Hampshire Arthur married Emily Louia Waller in the third quarter of 1881 in the Registration district of Southampton. In the 1939 Register there is: Address: 143 Bradley Road, Trowbridge, Wiltshire Name Gender Date of Birth Marital Status Occupation Arthur R Martell Male 15/07/1888 Married Officer of Custom & Excise Margaret J Martell Female 12/06/1906 Married Unpaid Domestic Duties An Arthur R Martell married a Margaret J Hill in the fourth quarter 1929 in the Registration District of Chesterfield. They do not appear to have had any children. There is a 1966 probate record which reads: "MARTELL Arthur Reginald of Keeragh Longstock Stockbridge Hampshire died 1 March 1966...". That record ties back to the 1966 death index record for an Arthur R Martell whose death (age 77) was registered in the first quarter in the Registration District of Romsey, Hampshire. Regards Chris Edited 21 September , 2018 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 21 September , 2018 Share Posted 21 September , 2018 Thank you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 22 September , 2018 Share Posted 22 September , 2018 (edited) Hi, JS WRIGHT may be John Stanley Wright. Image source: The National Archives - file WO 338/21/9 If that were to be him, his file is at the National Archives here. Without more clues, I can find little about him, other than from the London Gazette, it would appears that he was commissioned on 19th December 1917 His service file would give you more information. Looking at Capt ROE. The index to officers administrative numbers (file WO 338/16/12 at the National Archives), for the surname of Roe who are noted as Tank Corps men, you see From a couple of other records Maurice didn't appear to rise to the rank of captain, so I think that he can be ignored. That would seem to leave L W Roe. In the record above it notes that he previous served with the "10/45". That stands for the 10th Battalion, 45th Regiment of Foot (otherwise known as the Sherwood Foresters (Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment)). It looks like the London Gazette shows his first name: In the 1911 census there only appears to be one Laurence Roe - a Laurence William Roe. Address: 4 Harley Street, Castle Boulevard, Lenton, Nottingham Name Relation to Head Age Gender Marital Status Occupation Birth Place George Roe Head 54 Male Married Bricklayer Eastwood, Nottinghamshire Alice Rhodes Roe Wife 47 Female Married Sutton In Ashfield, Nottinghamshire Laurence William Roe Son 17 Male Single Student Alfreton, Derbyshire John George Roe Son 15 Male Single Apprentice Etcher On Metals Alfreton, Derbyshire Frederick Alfred Roe Son 13 Male Single School Alfreton, Derbyshire Arthur Eric Roe Son 7 Male Single Lenton, Nottinghamshire The record shows that George and Alice had been married for 23 years. They appear to have married on 22nd June 1887. Her maiden name appears to be Mart. In the 1939 Register there is an unmarried (then a Captain in the Royal Army Service Corps) Laurence W Rowe (born 4th March 1894) living at 4 Harley Street, Nottingham. Also at the address are a George Roe (born 1856), and an Alice Roe (born 1863). There is a 1965 probate record which reads: "ROE Lawrence William otherwise Laurence William of The Coppice Hospital Nottingham died 27 December 1964..." There is a death registration index record in the fourth quarter 1964 under the name of a Lawrence Roe which shows that he died age 71. Admittedly there is no proof that he is actually your man, but he has to be a strong candidate. Regards Chris Edit: There are some surviving 1918/19 Absent Voter Lists for Nottingham. Absent from 4 Harley Street are a Lawrence William Roe (shown as a Captain in the Tank Corps), and a Frederick Alfred Roe (a Gunner in the Royal Horse Artillery). Edited 23 September , 2018 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 23 September , 2018 Share Posted 23 September , 2018 (edited) Hi Arnaud, DH RICHARDSON appears to be a Donald Hickling Richardson. Image source: The National Archives - file WO 338/16/7 The London Gazette indicates that he was originally commissioned on 7th December 1914. His Medal Index Card indicates that he first served overseas with the 12th Battalion Sherwood Foresters, which ties back to the "12/45" shown in the record above. Image source: Ancestry.co.uk - WW1 medal card collection He was awarded his Military Cross for his actions near Frezenberg , 22nd to 24th August 1917 Image source: The National Archives - file WO In an index of service files held by the Ministry of Defence (MoD), his date of birth is shown as being the 4th February 1893. His birth was registered in the 2nd quarter 1893 in the Registration District of Nottingham. There is a 1977 probate record which reads: "RICHARDSON, Donald Hickling of Stoke House Stoke Gabriel Totnes Devon died 8 October 1977...". His death registration record gives a date of birth of 3rd February 1893, which is (very) slightly at odds with date in the MoD index above. In the 1901 Census... Address: 6, Friar Yard, Park Street, Nottingham Name Relation to Head Age Gender Occupation Birth Place Arthur Richardson Head 41 Male Wholesale Grocer East Bridgford, Nottinghamshire, England Francis Richardson Wife 41 Female Nottinghamshire, England Arthur W Richardson Son 13 Male Nottinghamshire, England Dorothy Richardson Daughter 11 Female Nottinghamshire, England Muriel Richardson Daughter 8 Female Nottinghamshire, England Donal Richardson Son 8 Male Nottinghamshire, England Rosa Harvey Servant 16 Female Cotham, Nottinghamshire, England In the 1911 census... Address: 'Springdale', Clare Valley Park. Nottingham Name Relation to Head Age Gender Marital Status Occupation Birth Place James Calvert Wilson Head 49 Male Married Land Surveyor Huddersfield, Yorkshire Edith Wilson Wife 49 Female Married Huddersfield, Yorkshire Mary Dorothy Wilson Daughter 19 Female Single Bromley, Lancashire Edith Lilian Wilson Daughter 16 Female Single Bromley, Lancashire Florence Gertrude Watking Servant 17 Female Single General Servant (domestic) Sutton on Trent, Nottinghamshire Arthur Whitby Richardson Visitor 23 Male Single Wholesale Grocer Nottinghamshire Donald Hickling Richardson Visitor 18 Male Single Bank Clerk Nottinghamshire Arthur and Francis/Frances are recorded at 6, Friar Yard with 3 of their 5 children. It says that they had been married for 24 years. In a 1918 Absent Voter List for Nottingham it records Donald Hickling Richardson (a Captain of 'C' company, 6th Battalion, Tank Corps) being absent from 23, Park Valley, Nottingham. In the 1939 Register... Address 6, Park Valley, Nottingham Name Gender Date of Birth Marital Status Occupation Donald H Richardson Male 03/02/1893 Married Wholesale Grocer Dorothy R* Richardson Female 16/09/1894 Married Unpaid Domestic Duties Arthur Wm Block Male 30/12/1909 Married Net Manufacturer Penelope M Block Female 09/05/1916 Married Unpaid Domestic Duties Leonora M Grayson Female 12/10/1905 Single Domestic *in the record, above her name "o/w Mary D" has been written. This might suggest that she was actually Mary Dorothy Richardson, but was commonly known as Dorothy. There is an index record for a Donald H Richardson who married a Mary D Wilson in the Registration District of Nottingham in 1915. It might relate to them. Regards Chris Edit: Reading back on the topic, I see from post #8 that you've already researched Richardson. I hope that I've come to the same conclusion. Edited 24 September , 2018 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 24 September , 2018 Share Posted 24 September , 2018 (edited) hI Chris, I have the same conclusion as you for Donald Hickling Richardson and his photography, but you have other informations very interesting for me. I search also photos of these tanks but i know only a modern war paint with the tank of Captain Rowe. Your help is very important for me. Thank you very much. Edited 24 September , 2018 by Arnaud Gabet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Gabet Posted 25 September , 2018 Share Posted 25 September , 2018 Who is 2nd lt CLARK who commanded L46 ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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