Crossed rifles - marksman

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, Birdog56 said:

Thank-you Frogsmile so much for rapid response, I would like to see if I can purchase one to add to the collection of things that I keep in a Princess Mary tin, things that relate to him. He served in India and then Mesoptamia,  does that give an idea as to which he would be wearing?

India and Mesopotamia were both hot weather stations so his most common uniform would have been khaki drill (KD - a very stout cotton twill) of which each soldier received three suits.  The gilding metal version of the badge was used with that uniform so that it was easily transferred as each one was laundered. During periods of high humidity they had to be changed more frequently each day.

 If he served there between the Boer War and WW1 he would also have had a scarlet serge frock (for best dress) on which cloth badges were often fastened using hooks and eyes. 

Edited 24 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Birdog56]

19 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

India and Mesopotamia were both hot weather stations so his most common uniform would have been khaki drill (KD - a very stout cotton twill) of which each soldier received three suits.  The gilding metal version of the badge was used with that uniform so that it was easily transferred as each one was laundered. During periods of high humidity they had to be changed more frequently each day.

 If he served there between the Boer War and WW1 he would also have had a scarlet serge frock (for best dress) on which cloth badges were often fastened using hooks and eyes. 

Again, thank you for all the information,  he enrolled as 17 year old in Dorset Territorial,  so he didn't get involved in Boer war.

I will keep an eye out to purchase a metal option at some stage. Many many thanks.

[geraint]

Indeed! Thanks from me as well

[Muerrisch]

Bird dog:

For the regular army 1st class shot was not a marksman and had no badge. The classifications were fourfold:

marksman[with badge as illustrated], 1st class, 2nd class, 3rd class. The latter were essentially treated as needing remedial training.

Authority: Musketry Regulations 1909 and previous editions.

I do not have easy access to my collection of TF regulations to check that they mirrored the regulars, but in any case the TF came under regular conditions once embodied for the Great War.

If grandfather had the badge he was better than 1st Class.

[FROGSMILE]

On 24/02/2023 at 12:20, Birdog56 said:

Again, thank you for all the information,  he enrolled as 17 year old in Dorset Territorial,  so he didn't get involved in Boer war.

I will keep an eye out to purchase a metal option at some stage. Many many thanks.

I’m glad to help.  Each year all infantrymen**, including the Foot Guards regiments, were required to fire their rifles in the Annual Classification shoot, which was a rifle practice comprising several phases with a set number of rounds.  All those who achieved above a certain score became qualified as marksmen, for which they received the crossed rifles badge and extra pay (from memory only I think this was one penny extra per day for the succeeding year).  The process had to be repeated and a similar superior score achieved for the extra payment to continue.  This led to a certain degree of pressure, especially for the married men, for whose wives the extra pennies were important, especially if there were children.

The Trained Soldiers annual classification with the rifle consisted of 250 rounds fired at ranges from 100 to 600 yards, with the firer kneeling or lying, for some practices with bayonets fixed, and with a so-called 'mad minute' when he fired 15 rounds rapid at a target 300 yards away. Part III of the classification shoot decided a man's marksmanship standard. He fired fifty rounds from various ranges (distances) at a target with three scoring rings, earning 4 points for a 'bull' (24 inches wide), 3 points for an 'inner' and 2 points for an 'outer'. The highest possible score was 200 points, and to qualify as a marksman a soldier needed 130 points; 105 made him a first-class shot, and 70 a second-class shot.

Marksmanship did not simply consist of shooting on the range, but also included judging distance and understanding enough theory of small arms fire to be able to aim off for wind or at a moving target, and to understand what was meant by the 'beaten zone' covered by fire at any given range. Rifles were 'zeroed' (correlated) to individual firers, and the rifles butt number (ID) was recorded in a soldiers personal record, his 'small book'.

Marksmanship badges of crossed rifles were worn by all marksmen below the rank of warrant officer (as at 1914) and there were special distinctions for the best shot in each company (crossed rifles and star up to JNCO, crossed rifles and crown up to SNCO) and the battalion's JNCOs competed for a crossed rifles and star within a laurel wreath and its SNCOs for a crossed rifles and crown within a laurel wreath. In theory an individual could bear several of these badges simultaneously and the seriousness with which they were regarded is plain.

Field Service Regulations defined ranges (distances) of 600 yards and under as 'close', 600 to 1,400 yards as 'effective', 1,400 to 2,000 yards as 'long' and 2,000 to 2,800 yards (which required a special sight fitted to the Mark III SMLE) as 'distant'.

**cavalry especially, plus some other arms, were also required to shoot to varying degrees.

Afternote: RA, AOC and ASC were also to undergo an annual classification practice, but officially just up to First Class shot, albeit that they could advance to marksman if there was sufficient ammunition spare, though they weren’t eligible for prize badges.  That was the situation as at 1914.

Edited 27 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Birdog56]

On 24/02/2023 at 11:57, FROGSMILE said:

India and Mesopotamia were both hot weather stations so his most common uniform would have been khaki drill (KD - a very stout cotton twill) of which each soldier received three suits.  The gilding metal version of the badge was used with that uniform so that it was easily transferred as each one was laundered. During periods of high humidity they had to be changed more frequently each day.

 If he served there between the Boer War and WW1 he would also have had a scarlet serge frock (for best dress) on which cloth badges were often fastened using hooks and eyes. 

Again, thank you for all the information,  he enrolled as 17 year old in Dorset Territorial,  so he didn't get involved in Boer war.

I will keep an eye out to purchase a metal option at some stage. Many many thanks.

[Birdog56]

1 hour ago, Muerrisch said:

Bird dog:

For the regular army 1st class shot was not a marksman and had no badge. The classifications were fourfold:

marksman[with badge as illustrated], 1st class, 2nd class, 3rd class. The latter were essentially treated as needing remedial training.

Authority: Musketry Regulations 1909 and previous editions.

I do not have easy access to my collection of TF regulations to check that they mirrored the regulars, but in any case the TF came under regular conditions once embodied for the Great War.

If grandfather had the badge he was better than 1st Class.

Thank-you for your input to the question. All I can say is that the Regiment museum did some checking and told me he was entitled to the badge, with a small pay increase

[Birdog56]

Frogsmile,  The information you have provided is amazing , so much detail. Again thank you hir your help

[FROGSMILE]

On 26/02/2023 at 00:55, Birdog56 said:

Frogsmile,  The information you have provided is amazing , so much detail. Again thank you hir your help

I’m glad to help a little birdog, but I didn’t really give you a great deal of detail, just the basics that I thought might paint a picture for you.

The extra payment above basic pay for proficiency was really something that evolved as a result of the lessons learned from the 2nd Boer War, where many failings had been revealed.  In the decade or so that followed two dynamics collided, first the Treasury wanted to reduce expenditure on defence (the war had been unexpectedly expensive) and second the Army wanted to improve soldiers individual efficiency by moving away from length of service governing increased pay, to a more proficiency based pay.

The combination of these requirements led to changes in how individual messing (feeding) allowance worked, and introduced enhanced pecuniary reward for personal proficiencies, including improved standards of musketry.  These aspects were regulated by the Royal Pay Warrant, and Musketry Regulations, with the latter in particular being revised more than once before WW1 along with the rates being paid.  The eventual outcome was complex, as well as highly controversial, and the situation as it eventually stood in 1914 was articulated as follows (from my notes): 

“The conditions under which service pay and proficiency pay are issued are laid down in Articles 1060 and following and in Appendix V. of the Royal Warrant for Pay of the Army, 1914.

Service pay (Class I. 6d. to 7d. per day and Class II. 4d. to 5d. per day) is now being-drawn only in the case of men, serving with the Colours, or in the Reserve on 4th August, 1914, who enlisted before 1st October, 1906, and have not since that date entered into a new contract by extension of service, re-engagement, transfer to another arm, etc.

Such men draw this emolument, i.e., service pay, under the conditions in force at the time of their enlistment.

Proficiency pay (Class I. 6d. per day, Class II. 3d. per day (is issuable to Cavalry, Artillery, and Infantry soldiers who enlisted on or after 1st October, 1906, or who, having enlisted before that date, have relinquished their service pay rights on entering on a new contract as stated above.

A service qualification of two years Colour service is the only condition necessary during mobilisation for the Class II. rate (3d. per day) of proficiency pay (service on a prior engagement in the Regular Army, Royal Marines, Special Reserve, or, subject to certain conditions as to camp attendance, in the Territorial Force, may count for this qualification).

To earn the Class I. rate (6d. a day) a private soldier must in addition have passed the standard test in shooting or be a qualified signaller.

Non-commissioned officers of or above the rank of sergeant get Class I. rate provided they have two years' Colour service.

All Reservists who have rejoined the Colours draw service or proficiency pay according to the class of service or proficiency pay they were drawing when they were transferred to the Reserve.”

Ergo the concept of soldiers shooting for their pay was well established by 1914, but as you can see the matter of proficiency was quite complicated.  If you would like even more granularity you will find past threads here by various forum members who go into far greater detail, although in general this forum, unlike e.g. the Western Front Association, is perhaps not a deeply academic portal with lengthy articles and intellectually rigorous essays, but something more broad and accessible to the general public.  I wish you well with your family research.

Edited 27 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[rd72]

Just happened to come across the thread....... 

This series might help in the understanding of Army Musketry of the Great War (with a focus on the pre War Regulars)

All the background, shooting and further discussion on Rapid Shooting of the era is included in the 8 videos.