Tom W. Posted 6 February , 2013 Share Posted 6 February , 2013 Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 6 February , 2013 Share Posted 6 February , 2013 Skoda 75mm; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skoda_75_mm_Model_15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 6 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2013 Skoda 75mm; http://en.wikipedia...._75_mm_Model_15 I thought so too, at first, but isn't the Skoda barrel much thicker? http://www.lonesentr...ountain-gun.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 6 February , 2013 Share Posted 6 February , 2013 Cammo helmets too, do we have a date for image and location? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 6 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2013 Cammo helmets too, do we have a date for image and location? TT No, there's no date or location. It may be on a gunnery range, because there's a Schneider and Mark IV tank in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 6 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2013 It's an infantry-gun battery, that's for sure. I think the guns might be the 7.62 cm Infanterigeschütz Krupp L/16,5, fitted with experimental shields for the crew. Thre men have an insignia on the side of their helmets that's been mistakenly identified as the Baden coat of arms, but the stripe goes in the opposite direction. I think it's an unofficial infantry-gun insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid_Ian Posted 6 February , 2013 Share Posted 6 February , 2013 No, there's no date or location. It may be on a gunnery range, because there's a Schneider and Mark IV tank in the background. well that dates the photo to at least mid 1917 and more likely to later in the year as I would imagine that tanks captured around june would not be used as targets more likely they would be tested so as to assess their capabilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 6 February , 2013 Share Posted 6 February , 2013 I thought so too, at first, but isn't the Skoda barrel much thicker? http://www.lonesentr...ountain-gun.jpg Seems to match this shot - from a google search some seem thick like that photo, seem seem to match the photo http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/German_anti-tank_gun_%26_crew_October_1918_AWM_H13453.jpeg Regarding the Mk IV Tank, can you zoom in at all? To my mind looks like a Mk II Female so perhaps captured at Arras - just appears to me to have a big sponson but narrow openings for the gunshields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieBris Posted 6 February , 2013 Share Posted 6 February , 2013 The gun shields look like the 7.7cm Rheinmetall M15 Gebirgskanone L/17. The emplaced weight of the Rheinmetall gun was about 550 kg. The IGs were much heavier guns - about 800+ kg. Not sure about the guns being 7.5cm Skoda M15 Gebirgskanone - the Skoda had a hinged shield. The attached is a survivor in Victoria, Australia - the lower hinged portion of the shield is missing in this gun. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieBris Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Found this thread http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=84334 on another forum. The unit may have been Sturm-Bataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr) which was created to test various weapon systems. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Seems to match this shot - from a google search some seem thick like that photo, seem seem to match the photo http://upload.wikime...AWM_H13453.jpeg Regarding the Mk IV Tank, can you zoom in at all? To my mind looks like a Mk II Female so perhaps captured at Arras - just appears to me to have a big sponson but narrow openings for the gunshields Here's a closer view. Looks like a Mark IV female? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Well, I think I was wrong about this being a 7.62 cm Infanterigeschütz Krupp L/16,5, which is on the right. The barrel on the left looks different. It has a smoother, more wine-bottle shape. I'm stumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Looking through "Das Gerät der leichten Artillerie vor, in und nach dem Weltkrieg" volume 2 (Muther 1932), which covers Infanteriegeschütze, Tankabwehr and Tankbestückung I don't see anything that matches. Those particular pieces look like they have their original tubes--it's pretty long for an Infanteriegeschütz. I think that will be what finally gives the identity away. It's interesting there are three of them--I thought from the first posted photo it might be some kind of test gun. If somebody doesn't come up with something by the weekend I can do some more digging then--I'm away from most of my books at the moment. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Looking through "Das Gerät der leichten Artillerie vor, in und nach dem Weltkrieg" volume 2 (Muther 1932), which covers Infanteriegeschütze, Tankabwehr and Tankbestückung I don't see anything that matches. Those particular pieces look like they have their original tubes--it's pretty long for an Infanteriegeschütz. I think that will be what finally gives the identity away. It's interesting there are three of them--I thought from the first posted photo it might be some kind of test gun. If somebody doesn't come up with something by the weekend I can do some more digging then--I'm away from most of my books at the moment. Paul In the book Sturmtruppen: The Kaiser's Elite Stormtroopers, Oliver Richter identifies the guns as "7,7 cm Grabengeschütze." I haven't been able to find any such weapon. The book is riddled with errors, except for the chapter on flamethrowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Hi Tom. Is this the same gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 (edited) Tom, The photo you posted seems to be Bundesarchiv Bild 146-1974-054-017 Original caption: "Westfront. 77 mm Grabengeschütze werden in Stellung gebracht. Im Hintergrund ein englischer und deutscher Tank. Soldaten ziehen Grabengeschütze." If so, that helps some. Paul edited to add picture number and caption Edited 7 February , 2013 by Paul Hederer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieBris Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 "Grabengeschutze" can be translated as "Trench gun" which doesn't add much information. My view is that it's a gun based on the 7.7cm Rheinmetall M15 Gebirgskanone - the barrel looks a bit longer than the mountain gun, perhaps L/18 rather than the L/17 of the GebK. The M15 GebK, which was buit in fairly small numbers, had a max. range of 5900m, much shorter than the 7.5cm Skoda M15 GebK (7000m). Pity we haven't got an image of the trail - the Rheinmetall gun had a very distinctive trail with two poles back to a joint and a single pole back to the spade. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Pity we haven't got an image of the trail - the Rheinmetall gun had a very distinctive trail with two poles back to a joint and a single pole back to the spade. We'd see the trail if the gun was the other way round. Why would they be towing it barrel-first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Possibly something done when towing up hill, or done to stop the barrel from hitting the ground (or both?) I've a photograph of a British mountain gun in Salonika being man hauled up hill, barrel first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arie Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 (edited) Hi Tom, I think this is a 7,7 cm Infanterie-Geschütz 18 made by Krupp. I have a better picture of the one you show and there you can see that the barrel is longer than the recoil mechanism underneath it. The other Infanterie-Geschütze were quite different in appearence. The one shown by Paul in post 15 is a 7,7 cm I.G. L/20. Sorry, but having trouble uploading pictures. Regards Arjen Edited 7 February , 2013 by arie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 It's an infantry-gun battery, that's for sure. I think the guns might be the 7.62 cm Infanterigeschütz Krupp L/16,5, fitted with experimental shields for the crew. Thre men have an insignia on the side of their helmets that's been mistakenly identified as the Baden coat of arms, but the stripe goes in the opposite direction. I think it's an unofficial infantry-gun insignia. Neat photo, looks like the officer is wearing a Reichsrevolver. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Hi Tom, I think this is a 7,7 cm Infanterie-Geschütz 18 made by Krupp. I have a better picture of the one you show and there you can see that the barrel is longer than the recoil mechanism underneath it. The other Infanterie-Geschütze were quite different in appearence. The one shown by Paul in post 15 is a 7,7 cm I.G. L/20. Sorry, but having trouble uploading pictures. Regards Arjen Very Cool! Appreciate the ID on the gun I posted--these IG's are not my forte. Do you recognize who the officer behind the gun is? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 7 February , 2013 Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Neat photo, looks like the officer is wearing a Reichsrevolver. I agree it is a very interesting photo. The troops are also all armed with the Karabiner 98 AZ rifle and what looks to be the seldom encountered S14 bayonet.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Very Cool! Appreciate the ID on the gun I posted--these IG's are not my forte. Do you recognize who the officer behind the gun is? Paul That's the Crown Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2013 Hi Tom, I think this is a 7,7 cm Infanterie-Geschütz 18 made by Krupp. I have a better picture of the one you show and there you can see that the barrel is longer than the recoil mechanism underneath it. The other Infanterie-Geschütze were quite different in appearence. The one shown by Paul in post 15 is a 7,7 cm I.G. L/20. Sorry, but having trouble uploading pictures. Regards Arjen Your previous post says that 7,7 cm Infanterie-Geschütz 18 never saw combat. That would explain why I've never seen it before. It appears the Bundesarchiv caption is wrong and it's not a "Grabengeschütz." The only Grabengeschütz I know of was the 37 mm gun. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=158472entry1538388 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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