Mills bombs at Gallipoli

[michaeldr]

then came the "cricket ball," just like Jacko's, only we had to light the fuse with a match and he didn't, as he had a match head on the fuse and some phosphorus pinned to his tunic.

Bryn,

This could be a ref to the 'Malta hand grenade'

see http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30021480

regards

Michael

[gilly100]

Hi Fellas

I will get back to you shortly on Hill 60 bombs and so on. I do know there were batches of newly arrived bombs, from Egypt I think, that proved faulty by the fuse being shorter than stated. They claimed the lives of Archie Crowe and Robert Spencer of the 10th Light Horse, which Tom Kidd, same regiment commented upon. This around the same time, or shortly after Throssell's action on 29 August. Memos were put out to rectify the situation. I will need to look it all up, as I am nowhere near that point in time at Hill 60. Another issue was the supply of bombs being held up on the non return of the crates they were transported in from Anzac.

I have thus far come across no mention of Mills bombs at Hill 60 up to late August 1915, but have yet to go through records of the units from September onwards, mainly from 54th Div.

It seems the MG thread at Landings has way laid me partly. Interestingly, the captured Turk Maxim from Hill 60, taken by members of the Canterbury Mounted Rifles ( brothers awarded DCM's for this), appears to be a tripod mount, not sled, but that is another yarn I understand. (please re open that thread as there is more to be learned I am sure!)

Nice to be involved in another thread with no nastiness.

Cheers

Ian

[Bryn]

Thanks Michael, very interesting. I had no idea those things existed, let alone had been used at Gallipoli.

Ian, I agree. Also, this snippet may be of interest to you both:

[gilly100]

This from Wes Olson's book - Gallipoli - The Western Australian Story

Page 276 - "The offending bombs were cast iron 'cricket ball' grenades of the No15 Malta pattern. Hamilton had ordered 10,000 of these in July for his August offensive and to meet this order a batch was manufactured in Egypt. These proved to have faulty fuses, and following the incidents with Spencer and Crowe all the Egyptian made bombs were recalled. Archie Crowe died of his wounds on 31 August..."

Page 280 and referring to 8 September 1915 at Hill 60

"The next day the light horsemen received a supply of 'Light Pitcher Bombs'. With these, wrote Kidd, 'our bombers are able to outrange the enemy bombs - Enemy bombers become quiet'.

Wes Olsen has endnoted the reference to Pitcher bombs, which says - The light pitcher bomb (No13 Hand Grenade) was considerably lighter than the jam tin bombs and marginally lighter than the cricket ball types, allowing them to be thrown further.

Hope this helps the discussion. I have yet to delve into any war diaries, lazy sod that I am!

Cheers

Ian

[michaeldr]

This 1917 hand book may help with some of the more unusual (to me at least) names and descriptions of Hand Grenades

see http://ia700304.us.a...d00ainsrich.pdf

regards

Michael

[Bryn]

Thanks for that link Michael. I went through the book last night and, not being well-versed in the history or the variety of grenades, found it fascinating. No jam-tin bombs though!

[Guest Foxhound]

When I threw my first 'Mills Bomb' - (Grenade, No 36) on Ash ranges in 1975 we first had to prepare them as they came in two parts, body and fuse. Unscrew base plug, insert fuse, base plug screwed back in. Straight out of the box they were heavily caked in wax, a precaution we were informed as a hangover from the waterproofing instituted some 60 years previously for the Gallipoli campaign (maybe some military training folklore passed down! - or maybe a historical detail?). despite being 1944 vintage they all functioned well - waiting to throw, the waiting detail i was on were undergoing instruction on the preparation of an explosive charge for the destruction of a 'blind anti-tank round. Following a 'crump' on the range some 150m away there was a whizzing sound followed by a sharp sound as the base plug scored a bright graze along the body of the dummy anti tank round we were gathered around, and lay hissing embedded hot in the wet ground. Needless to say we moved back another 50m! Interestingly it was felt that the 'Mills' was inefficient as it broke in to too few bits of shrapnel, and we were wasting out the existing stocks as the new L2 grenade entered service (a thin metal case with notched thick wire inside to break into hundreds of pieces - so everyone gets a little bit!)

[Gunner Bailey]

! Interestingly it was felt that the 'Mills' was inefficient as it broke in to too few bits of shrapnel, and we were wasting out the existing stocks as the new L2 grenade entered service (a thin metal case with notched thick wire inside to break into hundreds of pieces - so everyone gets a little bit!)

When Mills tested the new No 5 in 1915 he exploded a grenade near some large boards. When it exploded they counted 300 holes and 1000 other impacts. The Mills broke up inconsistently, with pieces varying from a less than a mm across to the complete baseplug flying around. To get a grenade to break up evenly the grooves need to be on the inside not the outside. Modern grenades reflect this, with the notched wire. Yes modern grenades are far more efficient, especially at wounding rather than killing. The Mills was a killer.

John

[Guest]

There were huge difficulties in providing munitions. LLoyd George in a speech to Parliament on 28th July 1915. here: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1915/jul/28/munitions-department-progress-of-work#S5CV0073P0_19150728_HOC_330

Mention of "bombs and hand grenades' is in this part below....

Lloyd George: "I now come to some of the steps we are taking for organising fresh sources of supply. The first step is to extend existing factors. It is rather difficult to give any details as to the steps we are taking in this direction. A good deal has been said about the shortage of rifles and machine guns, and all I should like to say about that is that I think I can assure the House that the steps "we have taken, and are taking, to increase the supply of these essentials will, I believe, "when they are known, satisfy every reasonable critic. Unfortunately, any extension of machinery in this direction takes a very long time to fructify, as all those who have been engaged in' the turning out of rifles and machine guns know very well. But a beginning has to be made, and, unless I am mistaken in the signs of the time, the action we have taken will ensure results of a character that will impress themselves in the course of the War long before that War is likely to be brought to a satisfactory conclusion. We have also taken steps to increase very considerably bombs and hand-grenades for trench warfare, and I think the enemy know well the progress we have already made in this direction."

MG

[Guest]

I don't think that would be a Mills and the story has probably changed over time. Birdwood's first landing ashore would have been months (April / May 1915?) before the Mills Grenade ever got to Gallipoli.

The Mills was tested as a prototype in France in February and March 1915. Deliveries of production grenades to France did not start in any volume until August and September 1915. The first Mills were sent to Gallipoli just before the evacuation. Also if a Mills went off near your leg, you would not just have a few cuts in the leggings.

So it's a good anecdote but it does not stand scrutiny for it being a Mills grenade. The dates in no way fit.

John

John - another ref point for the dates of issue of Mills Bombs on the Western Front. According to "Stand To - A Diary of the Trenches 1915 -1918" by Capt F C Hitchcock MC. A note on page 61 states:

"The Mills Bomb was issued to troops in July. Plug screwed in to cover detonator. A good bomb but the early issues were more dangerous to thrower than enemy"

He was with the 2nd Bn Leinsters at Ypres at the time.

MG

[Gunner Bailey]

Thanks Martin. The remark probably relates to the early lever design which was prone to slip off the striker. When production standards improved and designs changed it improved the situation. The problem was finally solved with the Mills 23MkIII and the 36.

Training was also poor and Mills actually made a training film for the army to use to train the trainers.

John

[Guest]

Thanks Martin. The remark probably relates to the early lever design which was prone to slip off the striker. When production standards improved and designs changed it improved the situation. The problem was finally solved with the Mills 23MkIII and the 36.

Training was also poor and Mills actually made a training film for the army to use to train the trainers.

John

Indeed..there are a few accounts from the Gallipoli war diaries speaking of accidents during bombing training. I had always assumed they were jam-jar bombs but clearly the early Mills were lethal to both sides. Hitchcock also mentions the issue of primitive gas masks in July and the German's use of the flammenwerfer and the demoralizing effect it had on the troops. It is a very interesting diary. MG

[Gunner Bailey]

Post war Mills complained greatly that he spent a huge amount of time working with manufacturers getting production right. He also worked with the army to improve training. I think regarding Galipolli the problems was most likely jam tin bombs and No 15 Grenades, both of which were lethal if hung onto for too long. However the No 5's reaching Galipoli in September would have been the first volume production types so should have been more reliable.

No 1's also were deadly in a trench situations as they were prone to hitting the back wall in the throw.

John

[Guest]

It seems accidents kept on happening....

2nd Bn South Wales Borderers War Diary 1st Oct 1915: IMBROS: 9.30am. Bn parade and Bomb Throwers Parade. Called back at 11.15 by message saying C in C was coming round. On the way back found that two men had been badly injured and five others hurt by a Mills Bomb.

HQ 86th Inf Bde War Diary 22nd Nov 1915: 16.30 At the conclusion of a bombing instruction class for officers held by the Sgt Maj of the 2nd ROYAL FUS, while the bombs were being put away, one MILLS bomb appears to have been accidentally exploded. Three officers of 1st LANCASHIRE FUS wounded, (one later dying of his wounds) and one officer of the 2nd ROYAL FUS wounded. Also a storeman of 2nd ROYAL FUS wounded. A court of enquiry is being held tomorrow to investigate. Weather. Strong NE wind . Cold. Dull.

1st Bn Lancashire Fusiliers War Diary 22nd Nov 1915: GALLIPOLI PENNINSULA. 1630. At the conclusion of the bombing instructions for officers led by the Sgt. Maj, 2nd ROYAL FUS., while the bombs were being put away, one mills bomb appears to have been accidently exploded. Three officers 1st Bn LANCS FUS. wounded, one later dying of the wound. Court of enquiry being held tomorrow to investigate. Weather strong NW wind. Dull.

But some worked...

HQ 38th Inf Bde War Diary 8th Dec 1915: CHOCOLATE HILL. 8/12/15. Work continued on defence works round CHOCOLATE and GREEN HILLS. Improvements carried out on B 49 and DORSET SAP. Wiring in front of B 52 strengthened. Sap to well south of GREEN HILL deepened. A quiet day and night. A patrol on the right opposite B 52 reported Turks driving in stakes just to their left. 7pm. A patrol on the left under Lt TOLLEMACHE, 6th KING'S OWN went forward at 7pm along the ledge which runs NNE from the junction of B 56 and B 57 for about 300 to 350 yards. They heard coughing and sneezing and saw a small enemy patrol enter the bushes so Lt TOLLEMACHE and two men crawled forward. They threw Mills bombs into the bushes which exploded well and four or five Turks ran out of the bushes. 9.30pm. All sounds of working ceased and the patrol returned about 9.30pm. O. Sick 3, O.R. Killed 1, Wounded 5, Sick 27. Effective strength O. 101, O.R. 3169.

As an aside, the remarkable similarities between the HQ86th Inf Bde and 1st Bn Lancs Fus war diaries might indicate the author of one was familiar with the other diary. Too close to be coincidental.

MG

[Gunner Bailey]

Interesting quotes and one is clearly a duplicate. None of them indicate it was the Mills at fault though.

Most accidents with the Mills were actually down to training and people being scared of them. My father was an infantry sergeant in WW2 and he told me of the many accidents that occurred on the grenade ranges. Grenades dropped after the pin was pulled, rings catching on kit or clothing and coming out, people freezing with fear then dropping the grenade and running (leaving the hissing beast on a 5 second count down). It's interesting that almost all Home Guard fatalities in WW2 happened on the Grenade ranges.

I would put most of the accidents down to handling and inexperience. The basic Mills worked very well and was safe. Add people to the mix and things go wrong.

The Mills did transform bombing. It made it far safer for the thrower than any previous grenade (percussion or lit fuze) as it initiated as it left the throwers hand. Hold on to it firmly and it's safe.

John

[Guest]

I happened to stumble on the 12 volume "History of the Ministry of Munitions" and in Vol XI "Supply of Munitions" and "Part 1 Trench Warfare Supplies" there is a nine page "Chapter IV: Grenades" that covers the history of Grenades in the Great War with some mind boggling detail. To save me re-writing, it is easier to post the relevant pages on the Mills....

MG

[Gunner Bailey]

I've no problem with that. It covers all the main historic points well. The comment regarding supply of detonators is of particular interest though.

John

[monuryurdal]

Hi dear friends. I think it was not possible. Because William Mills took the patent of the Mills-Bomb June 1915.(http://www.google.com/patents/US1178092). On the other hand, the example bombs which is the found and exhibiting now in Gallipoli museum, I think May be those objectives are remaining from the Armistice of Mundros. During the Armistice some troops, for exaple Australian 7th Light Horse, Canterbury return to Gallipoli and stayed there until declareting the new state of Turks "Republic of Turkey" May be that time they tried the bombs in some sham battles.Did it?