Mills bombs at Gallipoli

[RobL]

Was surprised to see one of these in a museum on the Gallipoli peninsula, a battlefield find - does anyone have information on how many, and when, these were issued to troops at Gallipoli, please?

[shippingsteel]

No expert on Mills bombs, however the Turks also had fragmentation grenades of a similar style, which were locally made in Istanbul, see below.

Cheers, S>S

[michaeldr]

They were famously very short of grenades ar Gallipoli

with empty jam tins etc being filled as substitute

This is a more conventional type, which seems to have been specially made on Malta

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30021480

That's a good picture SS: I have not seen that type before

I always understood that the 'cricket ball' type was the more usual Turkish grenade at Gallipoli

Thanks to both of you for your photographs

[Gunner Bailey]

The first Mills Bombs arrived in Gallipoli just before the evacuation in December 1915. In the Book 'Gallipolli' there is a quote: "An officer checking up on the near deserted trenches before the withdrawal found one soldier waging a personal battle with the Turks throwing bomb after bomb at the Turkish trenches. When asked what he was doing he said. “ It’s a pity not to use them, they’re great!”

John

[RobL]

Brilliant! Thanks John, superb anecdote. Is that Mr Hart's 'Gallipoli' book?

[Gunner Bailey]

Am at work and book is at home. Australian Author 500 page tome! John

[spof]

Les Carlyon's book?

[BG2012]

The first Mills Bombs arrived in Gallipoli just befoer the evacuation in December 1915. In the Book 'Gallipolli' there is a quote: "An officer checking up on the near deserted trenches before the withdrawal found one soldier waging a personal battle with the Turks throwing bomb after bomb at the Turkish trenches. When asked what he was doing he said. “ It’s a pity not to use them, they’re great!”

John

I can just picture a private standing next to a box full of these bombs throwing them over the trench as quicky as possible, great anecdote.

[Gunner Bailey]

Les Carlyon's book?

That's it! John

[ServiceRumDiluted]

I have another anecdote which suggests the first Mills bombs were not regarded well by the Aussies. This is the text of a letter written to The Guardian some time ago which I must have cut out and kept in a book, which I only rediscovered a few days ago while re-reading it:

" Here to cap the plethora of Gallipoli stories on this 75th anniversary is a true one about Field Marshall Lord Birdwood who commanded the Anzacs. During the last war I interviewed him for the BBC. I asked him ..."at which point did you feel the Australian and New Zealand soldiers differed from the British?"..."On my first day at Gallipoli," he said. "I stepped ashore and an Australian Private said...are you Birdie?" I agreed. He added: "Good. I want to complain about inferior bloody material." He then pulled out a grenade and its pin and threw it near me. It exploded. Pieces flew past my ears, cut my leggings. I did not know how to treat this outrage: nothing like that had happened in my entire military career. But that Australian only pushed his hat on the back of his head, put his hands on his hips and said..."Gawd Birdie... that is the first ******* thats gone off this month'."

George Ivan Smith, Pacific director of the BBC 1941-1946

I really liked that story, enough to keep the letter anyway. It would be interesting to see if it stands up to scrutiny or can be otherwise corroborated.

[Gunner Bailey]

I don't think that would be a Mills and the story has probably changed over time. Birdwood's first landing ashore would have been months (April / May 1915?) before the Mills Grenade ever got to Gallipoli.

The Mills was tested as a prototype in France in February and March 1915. Deliveries of production grenades to France did not start in any volume until August and September 1915. The first Mills were sent to Gallipoli just before the evacuation. Also if a Mills went off near your leg, you would not just have a few cuts in the leggings.

So it's a good anecdote but it does not stand scrutiny for it being a Mills grenade. The dates in no way fit.

John

[michaeldr]

Birdwood's first landing ashore would have been months (April / May 1915?) before the Mills Grenade ever got to Gallipoli.

John

In his autobiography, Birdwood says that he got ashore on the first day, making observations from Walker's Top. He later returned to his temporary HQ on board HMS Queen that night.

Alas, no mention, that I can recall, of this interesting story

[Gunner Bailey]

In his autobiography, Birdwood says that he got ashore on the first day, making observations from Walker's Top. He later returned to his temporary HQ on board HMS Queen that night.

Alas, no mention, that I can recall, of this interesting story

Thanks - no way it was a MiIlls Grenade then. Probably a No 1 or No 2. John

[Guest]

I'm afraid that Mill Bombs arrived earlier than December. This is from ET Cripp's (Lt in the Royal Gloucestershire Hussars Yeomanry, part of 2nd Mounted Div) personal diary dated 15th Sep 1915

CATOR HOUSE TRENCHES. SEPTEMBER 15th, 1915. Just woken up to find it is raining hard. So far only the end of my valise wet, thanks to the head cover of boards and earth. What luck to have it the first really wet day! I am sorry for the men. I can hear Smith trying to make a fire to boil some tea! I hope it won't go on, as you can't very well drain this clay soil when you're four feet below ground. I believe we shall always be walking crooked from everlastingly going round the traverses in the trenches and ducking your head... I instruct in bombs now and had to go and show the Warwicks how to use the new one -- the Mills bomb -- that has come out; and they are going to let us have it and not the beastly things you have to light with a match.

At this stage the RGHY was in in Suvla Bay. There are references to mills bombs in other unit War Diaries - 2nd SWB for example mentions them on 1st Oct 1915 when an accident happened with one whilst training at Imbros and they get mentioned in 29th Div and 13th Div War Diaries after that in Oct, Nov and Dec. No mention in 11th Div War Diaries or 54th Div War Diaries.

MG

[Gunner Bailey]

Martin. Many thanks for that. Great information. I'd not seen an earlier reference than that in Carlyon's book. September / October makes sense as production got going in August and the first bombs for training would probably have got to Galippoli a month or so later. It does show the grenade in Birdwood's episode could not have been a Mills.

John

[Guest]

Personally I am surprised that the Yeomanry got hold of them first. It may be the case that all units had them by mid Sep and just didn't record the event. Given the intense 'bomb' throwing one might be forgiven for thinking that the arrival of a new weapon would have attracted more attention. The earliest unit War Diary entry I can find is 1st Oct 1915 but there are plenty of mentions of bombing, bomb throwing classes etc prior to this date. There also seems to been an number of accidents during bomb throwing classes.

[Gunner Bailey]

Bomb throwing training always attracts accidents. I hadn't realized so many WW2 Home Guard were killed in training until I found a list of about 24 HG killed in grenade training accidents. John

[ServiceRumDiluted]

I only thought it was a Mills as pulling a pin was mentioned, but I suppose it is possible that the story was phrased differently by either interviewee, interviewer or paper editor as most people are familiar with initiating a grenade by pulling a pin, and a phrase like 'lit the fuse' could have been changed for dramatic effect.

I also wonder (given that it is apparently not mentioned in his memoirs... I'd remember that!) if the story was garnished a little. I believe that at the time of the interview (WW2) Australian forces were being marginalised and a story like that, promoting the loveable larrikin Aussie, may be a subtle reminder of the qualities of these men? just a musing.

[Gunner Bailey]

Most of the early grenades like the Grenades Nos 1 and 2 had pins as safety devices, as did the rifle grenades. It was only the grenades like the No 15, and the friction ignited grenades that did not have pins.

I think you may be right about the right about the perception of the Aussie soldier, with Birdwood using it to illustrate the variety under his command. John

[Bryn]

Thought these would be of interest; all are from Reveille, the journal of the New South Wales branch of the RSS&AILA:

'Mills' Bombs: Used at Anzac

Mention in several of the articles published in the December number of "Reveille" on the evacuation of Anzac that Mills' bombs were in use at that period, has led several correspondents to challenge the accuracy of those statements. The tenor of their arguments was that though they had been at Anzac from the Landing until the Evacuation, they had never known of Mills bombs being used in the campaign.

In order to obtain an authentic ruling on the question, the Director of the Australian War Memorial, Major J. L. Treloar, was appealed to, and he replied as follows:

"In the 1st Australian Division G.S. war diary there is a telegram dated September 5, 1915, to Anzac Corps G.S., reading: 'New Mills hand grenade tried with excellent results. It is the simplest, safest, most effective bomb yet seen here.' "The Anzac Corps G.S. diary under the date September 10, 1915, contains the entry: 'Warning was issued to all concerned by the Corps Commander against the too lavish expenditure of grenades of the following types: Pitcher, Mills, No.1 T and F.'

"The G.S. diary of the N.Z. and A. Division for January, 1916, contains a report on rhe evacuation of Anzac in which reference is made to devices that were adopted to harass the enemy, and mentions among these 'trip wires which withdrew the pins of Mills grenades.'

"These references are sufficient, I think, to confirm that Mills grenades were used at Anzac from about the beginning of September, 1915, and that the supply available was never large, with the result that they were used sparingly.

"Since writing the above, I have discovered a statement in the records which shows that the first issue of Mills grenades was made by Anzac Corps H.Q. on August 29, 1915. The issue was made for experimental purposes. Further issues were made later, but they consisted of a few hundred at a time, and their use was carefully watched." '

(Reveille 1 Mar 1933, p12).

'MILLS' BOMBS.

At 11 p.m. "C1" 'party withdrew. All our fixed rifles were in position. The floor of the trench was thickly padded with blankets, and "C3" men were ready to take over. Their packs were at hand and their boots were covered with strips of blankets. Each man had his rifle, a plentiful supply of ammunition, and two of those rare and miraculous Mills' bombs in his pockets. A few boxes had recently arrived. and were guarded as sacred.' (extract from Savige, S. G. 'Lone Pine Sector: 24th Battalion's Good-bye'. Reveille, 1 Dec 1932).

'The crosses on the graves of our men seemed to stand out brighter and larger than ever. Our rifles could be heard firing from our abandoned line. Soon we picked up our machine gun section which was in a position to cover the withdrawal. Then on to the beach, where the Navy, with its usual quiet efficiency, was ready to do its job. We quickly embarked in cutters, several of which were towed out by a pinnace. Mills bombs and surplus S.A.A. were dropped overboard. A little later we saw the explosions of the mines towards Quinn's Post.' (Easterbrook, C. C. 'Ryrie's Brigade: Light Horse at Anzac'. Reveille, 1 Dec 1932).

[michaeldr]

Thanks Bryn.

I suppose that the information above must rule out Mills grenades being the ones used by Throssell when he got his VC.

Does anyone know if it was a Mills which was dropped and then covered by A V Smith, who got the VC for his sacrifice at Fusilier Bluff?

[Gunner Bailey]

Thanks Bryn

Very interesting material. I think that starts to look conclusive that the first batches of Mills Bombs reached Gallipolli in late August 1915 for training purposes and that thereafter limited supplies were received. Field usage started in September, so only three months of operations in that theatre.

John

[Bryn]

Michael, it seems Throssell must have been using jam-tin bombs; Bean mentions that he and his men had shortened the grenade's fuses. Captain Shout, of the 1st Battalion, was certainly using jam-tins when he held one too long and sustained fatal wounds during his VC action at Lone Pine. Captain R. M. Hooper, of the 5th Battalion AIF, had his head 'blown off' by holding one too long, also during the action at Lone Pine. So the jam-tin grenades, crude though they were, still packed a punch.

[michaeldr]

Bryn,

Many thanks for that further information

[Bryn]

John and Michael,

This is interesting also; asks the same question about Throssell's VC, but also claims that other types of grenades had been in use, including the 'old Universal' with the haft and tails, as pictured.

"Mills Bomb on Gallipoli.

Dear "Non-Com."-Referring to the Mills bomb on Gallipoli, I was through the piece from April 25, 1915, until the battalion went off in November, with the exception of six weeks' hospital in May and June. I never saw a Mills bomb along our sector at the head of Victoria Gully but think I heard of them away round near the left flank among the light horsemen.

Our bombs were at first the old Universal - with the haft and tails; then came the "cricket ball," just like Jacko's, only we had to light the fuse with a match and he didn't, as he had a match head on the fuse and some phosphorus pinned to his tunic. Then came the good old "jam-tin" bomb, which was manufactured by the thousand by the engineers somewhere near the beach. The visible portion of captured Turkish bullets were mainly used in the jam tin bomb for shrapnel:-"B." Company, 11th Battalion, Doongaloor.

P.S. - What was the bomb that paved the way for Hugo Throssell’s V.C.?" (Western Mail [Perth, WA] 17 Mar 1932 p2).