gordon92 Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 The enclosed photo that I recently ran across on the Web is said to be that of a Captain Underwood Levson of the Royal Scots 1916. He displays a number of uniform features that do not appear to make sense. Captain Levson is dressed in what seems to be a khaki drill jacket with cutaway front and tartan trousers that could easily be of Hunting Stewart tartan as would be expected of the Royal Scots. The sleeves are embellished with slash cuffs, a mysterious feature that I have seen used by the Scottish Horse but never by the Scottish infantry. His TOS displays not a diamond-shaped Royal Scots cap badge but what appears to be a red hackle! Huh? Adding further to the perplexity of this uniform are the Thistle lapel collar badges. Thistle collar badgers (on doublets pre-War, on SD inter-war) were worn by ORs; officers' collar badges in the Royal Scots on SD and khaki drill should be the Star of the Order of the Thistle. The totality of these uniform features do not add up for a Royal Scots officer! Is it possible that by 1916 nobody cared how an officer configured his uniform? Could he be a Canadian? Your thoughts on this unconventional uniform would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 This is a total hotch potch, a possibility is that this is a theatrical picture as everything about his dress seems wrong. The sleeves, hackle, and collar dogs are all wrong and the Royal Scots were sticklers for dress sense and decorum. So I have reservations as well. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 Those collar badges look like Ayrshire Yeomanry to me khaki Had another look at a higher magnification, I agree could be thistle badge. (k) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 The enclosed photo that I recently ran across on the Web is said to be that of a Captain Underwood Levson of the Royal Scots 1916. He displays a number of uniform features that do not appear to make sense. Captain Levson is dressed in what seems to be a khaki drill jacket with cutaway front and tartan trousers that could easily be of Hunting Stewart tartan as would be expected of the Royal Scots. The sleeves are embellished with slash cuffs, a mysterious feature that I have seen used by the Scottish Horse but never by the Scottish infantry. His TOS displays not a diamond-shaped Royal Scots cap badge but what appears to be a red hackle! Huh? Adding further to the perplexity of this uniform are the Thistle lapel collar badges. Thistle collar badgers (on doublets pre-War, on SD inter-war) were worn by ORs; officers' collar badges in the Royal Scots on SD and khaki drill should be the Star of the Order of the Thistle. The totality of these uniform features do not add up for a Royal Scots officer! Is it possible that by 1916 nobody cared how an officer configured his uniform? Could he be a Canadian? Your thoughts on this unconventional uniform would be appreciated. It seems to me that he is either, not a British officer at all, or perhaps a member of a yeomanry regiment as suggested above. The photo looks to be very good quality and a close up scrutiny of the regimental buttons might well enable a positive ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 I think Khaki is right, they do indeed look like Ayrshire Yeomanry collar dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 1/1st eventually became 12th (Ayr & Lanark Yeomanry) Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers and 3/1st became 4th (Reserve) Bn of the same Regt. Not sure that helps decipher the uniform though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntanner Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 His full name is given on the web as Underwood Nicol Leon Levson. I've tried to come at this through tracing the man but ever rearranging the names isn't getting me any results. Definitely something odd. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 18 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2013 Thanks to all that have commented thus far. For those who have suggested the Ayrshire Yeomary: Enlargement of the collar badge is below. While indistinct, it does look like a thistle rather than the lion with wings of the Ayrshire Yeomanry. For FROGSMILE who suggested blowing up the uniform button: See image below. Appears to be a thistle within a wreath which was the button pattern of the Royal Scots Fusiliers. Gareth Davies has pointed out that the 1/1st eventually became 12th (Ayr & Lanark Yeomanry) Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers. This makes a little bit of sense. Nonetheless, in searching the Web I can find no image or mention of the Ayrshire Yeomanry wearing tartan or a hackle in the bonnet as displayed in the original photograph. oxandbucks: Thank you for trying a web search on Levson. I attempted this also and was only able to find an eBay listing that included the original photo. This listing suggests that Levson also served in the Black Watch thus possibly explaining the TOS with hackle. So, Captain Levson remains as a chimera, for the moment, who has composed himself of disparate uniform parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 This isn't a Great War photo of a Royal Scots officer I'm certain. For another purpose I have today been looking at dozens of photos of Royal Scots officers in WW1, and to a man they are photographed wearing glengarries, not tam o shanters, and with the old-fashioned cuffs with rank insignia - those ones look very 1930s/40s to me. None of the collar badges or buttons look anything like Royal Scots. Also, if the photo was WW1, the collar and tie would not look like that - any Lowland Scot officer would have a small knot with that all-important tie-pin beneath it. I was about to post a photo, but realise that you have just to look at my grandad in in my avatar to see how a suave Lowland Scots Infantry officer dressed for his photo in 1916. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 (edited) FWIW Just looking at the tonal quality of the photograph and the general style of image and colour rendition, if I was asked to date it on this alone I would have suggested this was a photograph from the 1930s or 40s. Ha! Snap Edited 18 January , 2013 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_armstrong Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 I found the ebay listing for the photo... If you look at the letter it isn't signed as if his surname is Levson - he signs "J Underwood Nichol". If you have Ancestry this appears to be him: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1262&iid=30850_A001154-00974&fn=J+U&ln=Nicol&st=r&ssrc=&pid=1824899 If you don't, the he was 4th Bn Royal Scots and gave his address as the Royal Hotel, Sauchiehall Street, Glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_armstrong Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 If you look at the photo it is signed Leon Levson -- this is the photographer not the subject. There appears to be a lot about him on the internet and he appears to be a notable bloke, particularly for photos in South Africa in the 1940s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_armstrong Posted 18 January , 2013 Share Posted 18 January , 2013 John Underwood Nicol - commission here... http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29346/supplements/10750/page.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted 19 January , 2013 Share Posted 19 January , 2013 I agree that the photo doesn't 'feel' Great War but much later. Are his rank badges those of a Captain or those of a Colonel or Lieutenant Colonel? The upper rank badge looks larger and flatter than a bath star. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 19 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2013 This isn't a Great War photo of a Royal Scots officer I'm certain. For another purpose I have today been looking at dozens of photos of Royal Scots officers in WW1, and to a man they are photographed wearing glengarries, not tam o shanters, and with the old-fashioned cuffs with rank insignia - those ones look very 1930s/40s to me. None of the collar badges or buttons look anything like Royal Scots. Also, if the photo was WW1, the collar and tie would not look like that - any Lowland Scot officer would have a small knot with that all-important tie-pin beneath it. I was about to post a photo, but realise that you have just to look at my grandad in in my avatar to see how a suave Lowland Scots Infantry officer dressed for his photo in 1916. William Indeed, the buttons appear to be the design worn by the Royal Scots Fusiliers. One infers that this officer also had Black Watch connections, hence, the TOS with what is probably a red hackle in this improvised uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 19 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2013 4th Gordons & Greg: Good points. I agree that this photo must be of a vintage later than Great War. The orange stripe in the (presumably) Hunting Stewart trousers comes through indicating a more advanced photographic technology. In looking at the photo more closely, the upper rank insignia does look like a Crown rather than a Bath Star as Greg pointed out. Thus, he is a Colonel at the time the photo was taken. With this rank, that explains his temerity in assembling such an unconventional uniform. Thanks to jon_armstrong for doing the research to verify that this officer actually existed. I was beginning to have doubts. So, with John Underwood Nicol, as we now his name to be, obtaining a commission in 1915 the original photo was indeed likely to have originated in the 1930s. I continue to be astonished by the collective abilities of forum members to attach a research issue such as this and make sense of what originally appeared to be an intractable mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 19 January , 2013 Share Posted 19 January , 2013 NICOL, JOHN UNDERWOOD, s. of Thomas N. ; b. Edinburgh, 8 Feb. 1884. Arts, 1901-04. 2nd Lieut., 4th Royal Scots, 2 Nov. 1915 ; attd. 4th York Regt. Home service, 191 5-18. Final rank. Lieutenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 19 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2013 NICOL, JOHN UNDERWOOD, s. of Thomas N. ; b. Edinburgh, 8 Feb. 1884. Arts, 1901-04. 2nd Lieut., 4th Royal Scots, 2 Nov. 1915 ; attd. 4th York Regt. Home service, 191 5-18. Final rank. Lieutenant. With a a final rank of Lieutenant, this casts some doubt that the pictured officer is the same man. Might he have attained the rank of colonel while in the reserve of officers after the Great War? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted 19 January , 2013 Share Posted 19 January , 2013 I think the picture shows a man too old in general terms( I know there are exceptions) to be a Captain in the Great War. I think the rank is full Colonel. This may mean he was a 'regimental honorary colonel' or Colonel Commandant, which may explain an odd uniform. The SD 'jacket' looking as if it might be Khaki Drill is also odd. In theory it could suggest the Middle East. India,or the Far East. Could the jacket date from service in the 74 Yeomanry Division in Palestine 1917? The Ayrshire Yeomanry served there. Alternatively could he be a member of 152(Ayrshire Yeomanry) Field Regiment RA which fought in Tunisia and Italy in the Second World War? Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 19 January , 2013 Share Posted 19 January , 2013 Where are his medal ribbons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 19 January , 2013 Share Posted 19 January , 2013 Hi, If i remember correctly this card was being sold with a letter from this officer thanking his platoon for the farewell gift when he left the unit in 1917. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 19 January , 2013 Share Posted 19 January , 2013 Hi, If i remember correctly this card was being sold with a letter from this officer thanking his platoon for the farewell gift when he left the unit in 1917. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 19 January , 2013 Share Posted 19 January , 2013 Indeed, the buttons appear to be the design worn by the Royal Scots Fusiliers. Yes I think that they are Royal Scots Fusiliers, whereas the collar badges are nothing like the little flaming grenades of the RSF (again see my avatar). I have been thinking about this photo this afternoon, and since virtually nothing is right I wonder whether perhaps it shows an actor in a role in an indifferently-costumed amateur theatrical production. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 19 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2013 Yes I think that they are Royal Scots Fusiliers, whereas the collar badges are nothing like the little flaming grenades of the RSF (again see my avatar). I have been thinking about this photo this afternoon, and since virtually nothing is right I wonder whether perhaps it shows an actor in a role in an indifferently-costumed amateur theatrical production. William Until forum members jon-armstrong (post #13) and Gareth Davies (post #17) found actual records associated with this man, I was inclined to conclude also that this was a theatrical production. Another thought on the buttons with the thistle design: Since this officer seemingly was commissioned into the 4th Royal Scots (Queen's Edinburgh Rifles), the cap badge of this unit is a thistle within a wreath over a Star of the Order of the Thistle. The thistle design may have been used on the buttons of the 4th RS. I have been unable to locate a photo of an example button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_armstrong Posted 21 January , 2013 Share Posted 21 January , 2013 Okay, so in 1914 John Underwood Nicol would have been aged 30, but the chap in the photograph looks significantly older. The chances are if the subject is who the ebay seller would have us believe it is, the photograph was taken very much post-war. This ties in with what others have said about the technical detail of the photograph. Then we come to the photographer, Leon Levson. According to a few sources online, he was a Lithuanian born in 1883 who moved to South Africa in 1902. He had a child in South Africa in 1914, and in the 1940s appears to have made something of a name for himself as a photographer of black South Africa... his house was used as a safe house for Nelson Mandela! Other sources show he had a gallery in Johannesburg in the 1920s. He died in Malta in 1961 having gone there for his health. http://www.africabib.org/rec.php?RID=29690631X&DB=p http://www.sahistory.org.za/people/freda-levson So possibly the portrait was taken in South Africa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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