stu Posted 24 August , 2004 Share Posted 24 August , 2004 Can any Pals please advise me of good tour companies going from the UK to visit the Western Front. I'm interested in tours that take in both the Somme and Ypres areas. I've just received a brochure from Leger Holidays,their prices certainly seem very resonable,are they any good? Many thanks. Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Dixon Posted 24 August , 2004 Share Posted 24 August , 2004 Try sending Tom Morgan a pm from the forum, I am sure he would either be able to help or offer sage advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientpoints Posted 24 August , 2004 Share Posted 24 August , 2004 Hi Stu, You will find links to the main touring companies on my website under 'battlefield tours'. It will depend on how long you are going for, how much detail you want and where you want to go at a basic level. For example my first tour was a 4 hour 'recce' of the area just go get a feel of where things are etc and a feel for things. Cheers Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brummy Posted 24 August , 2004 Share Posted 24 August , 2004 I've just received a brochure from Leger Holidays,their prices certainly seem very resonable,are they any good? Many thanks. Stu I have never been on a Leger tour but I have listened to and met many of their guides and found them to be very Knowledgable. As to going to the Salient and the Somme in one go, if its shorter (3 or four day) tour this definately leaves the tourist tired, if your are looking to go for a shorter period it may be worth considering going to one area or the other, especialy if you are taking youngsters with you. Brum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted 26 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 August , 2004 Thank you all for your help. Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 By the way,... forget guided tours,... I'm a 22 year old german and since my grand grandfather was stationed in the Somme area from 1915 to 1917 we're been touring each autumn arround the battlefields. There are just 2 things you need! 1st: get a copy of: Topography of armageddon: That's a great book of all trenchmaps in original..... 2nd. Just drive on, but don't miss visiting your british tank standing together with an US truck and a German 7.5cm canon in a building somewhere. (I'll tell you the adress later,..) You can't miss it ;-) As the guy there said, the driver survived the hit, but if you loak at the tank and the exploded wall you nearly can't believe that. I could put now pictures in here but the guy told us don't make the pictures public because nobody would come to visit this tank. You can't miss much but you may miss heaps of real history if you're only walking and driving on the official tourist trails...... See this helmet lying on TOP of an forest,.... THAT's history! Not only visiting museums. By the way, don't forget visting the "historial la grande guerre" in Peronne. It's a great type of a museum!!!! Have a nice tour! regards Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKY Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 Hi I think that the tours have a place for the casual visitor or the more experienced person who does not have the time to investigate the area beforehand. I am lucky, I can get over to the Somme a couple of times a year and after 5 years I am starting to get a feel for the area. The Battleground series are a must. If I went on a tour I would pick Paul Reed, his knowledge shown on this site and on different TV programmes has been very impressive and seems a "regular" guy who is keen to pass on his knowledge! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 I could put now pictures in here but the guy told us don't make the pictures public because nobody would come to visit this tank. Come on, I never buy that. A picture does not compare with the original and I think pictures will boost visits so here it is (last picture): http://www.xs4all.nl/~aur/Battlefields/flesquieres.htm Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 Thanks Marco. US Branch WFA 2005 13 day tour will include Deborah. Focus on the Somme but will be elsewhere. We are nearly sold out with 40 of 43 places booked, will be sold out Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 I did a Leger Christmas Market trip to Brussels, Weimar etc. We still refer to it as the holiday from Hell. Driver got lost and was heading West into sun when he should have been heading east: passengers forbidden to use on board loo for number twos, air con U/S, coach crashed with taxi in Brussels, our driver definitely at fault, other driver arrested at Dover on way back for drug smuggling, causing 4 hour delay to passengers ........... and those are just the highlights. Not even an apology, never mind anything else. AND they keep sending me brochures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 With respect that was not a Leger Battlefield Tour; what Leger get up to on their normal tours is nothing to do with me, but the Battlefield Tours are. They are not organised like this or indeed anything remotely resembling what you describe. Why? Because I organise and run them. There are people here who seem to have an axe to grind with certain tour companies; but the fact of the matter is that companies like Leger have made the battlefields affordable. They have proved that a low price far from means a poor service, when you consider who some of our guides are and the high quality of hotels and coach operators we use. Indeed, all of our guides are members of this forum. And many passengers have become members of this forum, and are regular visitors to the battlefields in their own right. My oh my - what demons we are: encouraging and nuturing peoples interest like that. If you do not wish to receive Leger brochure then all you need to do is contact them. Personally I am proud of what we have achieved at Leger; and it sticks in my throat when people who have no experience of what we do continually criticise us on this forum without any knowledge of our tours. Fair criticism is fine, and I will happily discuss off-forum any aspects of what we do; to come on and slag us off for no real reason goes against the spirit of this forum, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 Paul Reed: Well, as you rightly point out, I was clearly not grumbling about a Leger Battlefields Tour and I am fully content that these tours are as good as you say. I had no idea they did Battlefield Tours. I am genuinely sorry if I caused personal affront, and I am sure that others will draw the correct distinction between a visit to a Christmas Market and a Battlefield. On the subject of slagging off: if you have the entree to Leger, you might ask them to show you the relevant file: both my reasoned and measured complaint, and their reply, which I will not describe. Should you wish to pursue the matter in an even-handed way, I will be delighted to provide facts off site. I have independent witnesses from the same trip, this is not paranoia. Once again, a personal apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 Thank you for your comments, although I am at a loss as to why you posted such comments under a thread asking for information on battlefield tours when you say that you didn't even know Leger did such tours?! I would also ask you to re-read my previous post. I have nothing to do with Leger's other tours and so I cannot comment, nor would I wish to, on any complaint or grievance you may have with on a tour that is unconnected with anything I personally do. If you have a continued complaint and are unhappy, you can always take it further; but again, speak to the relevant people direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 Stu. I have done several Leger Battlefield Tours and have always found them to be very good value. The coach drivers have been excellent and have usually had an interest in the subject as well which means they have been prepared to go out of their way if requested. My personal preference is now for walking holidays rather than purely coach holidays as they seem to be more sociable. The other companies/individuals who do this sort of guided holiday all seem to be quite a bit more expensive but they will be generally in smaller groups. So you pays your money...... Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 Ok, here are 3 pictures,..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 the engine,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alex Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 the whole tank,..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientpoints Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 Looking good - thanks for sharing these Alex. cheers Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 29 August , 2004 Share Posted 29 August , 2004 Paul, Personally I am proud of what we have achieved at Leger; and it sticks in my throat when people who have no experience of what we do continually criticise us on this forum without any knowledge of our tours. Fair criticism is fine, and I will happily discuss off-forum any aspects of what we do; to come on and slag us off for no real reason goes against the spirit of this forum, in my opinion. Am I understanding correctly that those with a grievance against a tour operator should do this off-forum and not share their experience on-forum? 'Continually criticize us [Leger] on forum....' That is not a true representation of the facts. When you search for Leger on this site you see a tremendous amount of messages where you mention that you work for them (no problem, go for it), slightly less times (but still a heap of) people who enjoyed Leger Tours (should say something), one person being excided about going on a Leger tour and them being p.i.s.s.e.d off about it being canceled (I would have used even sharper words if I had been him, and yes this is good info for the forum in general) and one person with specific critisism but not menioning 'the name' which only became clear when you replied. That same person was positive about Leger in general b.t.w. on 19 feb. So for the amount of free advert you get here the bad press is not too bad. Please don't forget my question Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyHollinger Posted 29 August , 2004 Share Posted 29 August , 2004 While it smacks of being a Tourist to take a "tour" ... actually it helps a great bit. 1960 - Our family hired one of the "guides" to show us around Gettysburg ... (he looked old enought to me at the time to have been IN the battle) The guy tells me the story in such a way that it stirs interest and a belief that History IS the story - a historian and teacher is born!) 2001 - Lauren buys me a present for our vacation of a life-time ... hires Tom Morgan for a trip to Ypres ... instead of trying or not bother to try with figuring out where to go and how to get there - we actually experience the Ypres & Vimy sites ... (and sights) ... Wow! Sure it was touristy ... heck!!! We were Tourists!!!! It took the experience beyond the memorable and made it great. This is not merely to say that Tom's guiding was superb, but one should not hesitate to hire Guides or Tours - (get some references) because it's not cool. I believe listening to someone who knows something about a place and spending time being there rather than looking where to be ... is worth the price and the subordination ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain mchenry Posted 29 August , 2004 Share Posted 29 August , 2004 Marco, As you are trying to subtely point out in your post, Paul Reed is not using this thread or this forum for that matter as an advertisement or Leger. By rightly defending himself against the comments made by LB1418 about his unfortunate experiences on a Leger (Non-Battlefield) Xmas market tour, Paul was explaining rightly that this was in no way connected to the battlefield touring aspect of Leger. I have done plenty of independent guiding with both Military and Civilians and I have just finished my third tour as a part-time guide for Leger. As you rightly say, the good things said by forum members who have been on Leger tours reflect on the standard of those tours and do give good press, I cannot see anything wrong with that. Andy H, Have to agree with you there. I think that someone who is visiting a battelfield for the first time(s) is far better to do it with a guide be it on a coach or with a small group. When I moved to Belgium and started seriously studying WW1 I wish that I had done a couple of guided tours to get a feeling for the places, prior to branching off on my own trips. I am now a firm believer that once a person has done a few guided tours of the area(s) that they are interested in then it is a good time to get your books/research out and go it alone. Best rgards to you all Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 29 August , 2004 Share Posted 29 August , 2004 Hello Ian, My post speaks for itself. There is no Leger bashing here THAT is the point. What you make of it is up to you. I found this topic interesting. What I read was that Leger is apperently set up in such a way that people using the Battlefield branch should be glad that Paul is in charge and that they will have to wait and see what happens if he retires. Since that can be termed as an event 'far off' people can breath easy and book a Leger battlefields tour. And if those with a bad experience (cancelation, too little walking for their tast, bad hotel, restaurant, etc) about a (Leger) tour should wish to write about that on this forum then they should. That's also what this forum is for: exchanging experiences. Regards, Marco Ps. I personally find tours to France & Flanders a waste of money. 2 good books, sevaral good maps, DIYS and some mates is much cheaper & fun. But that's just my opinion, to which everyone is entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 29 August , 2004 Share Posted 29 August , 2004 People are of course encouraged to share bad experiences as well as good ones, with any company or organisation they chose to - but they must be able to substantiate such claims if they name a company or individual, otherwise there are legal issues. My original comment still stands; those who have made adverse comments on this forum (often not mentioning the company by name, but making it quite clear who they are talking about) have no experience of our tours and I can only wonder at their motives. Ps. I personally find tours to France & Flanders a waste of money. 2 good books, sevaral good maps, DIYS and some mates is much cheaper & fun. But that's just my opinion, to which everyone is entitled. For you this was fine the first time; for many it is not. They come on a tour to find their feet. If they have a serious interest they usually end up coming back on their own, which is something all of the guides who work for Leger encourage. You might think that strange, as we should be convincing them to come back with us. But the bottom line with us : the battlefields are more important that who you come with - that you come back again is what's important. Personally I think you will find few people who for similar large commercial companies with the same frame of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 29 August , 2004 Share Posted 29 August , 2004 I was with the greatest Somme-Battletour organizer this weekend -recommend AAA+++. Excellent preparations, showed places no ordinary tourist will see; very proficient: Chester's Messenger Battlefield Walks; here is the owner walking the Somme (I suggest he knows the local farmer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 29 August , 2004 Share Posted 29 August , 2004 Just a personal view: I have never been on an organised tour, except for minibus group tours that I have helped organise. I much prefer finding my own way, and always have. Armed - if you are a beginner with Rose Coombs book, or with the new one from the Holts - you will easily find the main sites, and get a feel for much else besides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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