12 Good conduct badges

[Muerrisch]

This has been drawn to my attention.

I am trying to date photo of the old boy.

Received wisdom is R Inn Fus, and I believe post Great War, post the 1922 changes qv below..

The implication is that twelve badges meant 56 years good conduct. The old boy has to be 70 at least. His badges paid no extra.

This from my article in MHS Bulletin:

In 1903 there was a major and unpopular change in the way soldiers were rewarded and paid. Various AOs of that year removed the association of extra pay with good conduct [GC], and also for most skill-at-arms badges. Thus the next warrant, of 1906, continued to call the GC badge ‘a high distinction’ for those under the rank of corporal or equivalent, but removed the 1d per day per badge from all except non-Europeans. The periods for Europeans were 2, 5 (a change), 12, 18, 23 and 28 years, with a proviso for earlier qualification by two years each for the 18, 23, 28 badges. The loss of pay was not uniformly bad news, as ‘Service Pay’ found a way of rewarding longer service at the same time. Within a few years, Proficiency Pay replaced Service Pay except for those with reserved rights, but monetary rewards for good conduct were not renewed, and were retained only by non-Europeans.

After the Great War, the army warrant (much amended piecemeal in the interim) was republished in 1922 with one interesting addition, that further badges above six could be earned for each additional five years service. The consideration of good conduct during Reserve service for those rejoining the colours was restored. Only non-Europeans continued to receive monetary reward.

[squirrel]

And a Lance Corporal. Would he have had to have served for about 150 years to get to Serjeant?

[Muerrisch]

And a Lance Corporal. Would he have had to have served for about 150 years to get to Serjeant?

Just concentrate! The question is, what date is photo!

[Steven Broomfield]

He looks old enough to have carried a Brown Bess.

Is it possible to zoom in on the medal ribbons? That might give a clue.

He's not wearing collar dogs, which seemed to be post-war, but that doesn't mean he's not post-war.

[Muerrisch]

I fear I do not own the original so the ill. is as good as it gets.

I think the ribbons begin with an IGS or similar, and I think the pale one may be Victory, and I am guessing the [his] left is a LS&GC.

[Peter Zieminski]

Topic 185310 was started a few days ago on this photograph which contains a link to the EBay listing

[Muerrisch]

Oh! Thank you: but we are no nearer dating the photo, are we? Or have I missed something?

[Muerrisch]

do please give it a go, you experts!

[Graham Stewart]

My own personnel thought is it dates no later than 1920(mid 20's max) - certainly a Boer War veteran, with a LSGC, but unlikely to have served overseas during WWI, as he would have had 15yrs in by 1914(1899-1914), plus previous service and therefore on the Depot Staff, so untitled to any overseas chevrons or a trio.

One of the easier options may be to contact the R.Inniskillings Museum, who may have some information on this character - if I remember correctly the Skins were one of the few regiments which had a regimental journal and it's more than likely he'll be discussed in that.

[Muerrisch]

My own personnel thought is it dates no later than 1920(mid 20's max) - certainly a Boer War veteran, with a LSGC, but unlikely to have served overseas during WWI, as he would have had 15yrs in by 1914(1899-1914), plus previous service and therefore on the Depot Staff, so untitled to any overseas chevrons or a trio.

One of the easier options may be to contact the R.Inniskillings Museum, who may have some information on this character - if I remember correctly the Skins were one of the few regiments which had a regimental journal and it's more than likely he'll be discussed in that.

Graham, many thanks, that is a good idea and I will!

[Muerrisch]

I now own the photo so will have a shufti at the ribbons and report back.

[Grovetown]

I now own the photo so will have a shufti at the ribbons and report back.

And quite a keen price I thought too.

Cheers,

GT.

[Muerrisch]

Yes indeed. I was ready to pay considerably more ....... 12 badges is a record as far as my notes go.

Could you hazard a time frame please?Mythoughts are early 1920s.

[wainfleet]

My thoughts are early 1920s.

Mine too, as the shoulder strap lacks the line of reinforcing stitching at the lower end. Its absence is indicative of very late war / postwar service dress.

[Muerrisch]

Thanks. Aaway from home for a few days, analysis needs to wait on return.

[Muerrisch]

here is the toothless blanket-stacker .................

now, what about his medals?

India GS, India 95-02, a coronation/durbar, and LSGC?

He MAY have something above his right arm chevron, but I thinkle its a wrink.

And he MAY have regimental buttons.

Does anyone know whether the Skins were in India during the relevany period?

And, no, I have not contacted the museum yet.

[Muerrisch]

Bumping this up, please.

[spof]

I can't see them on the 1897 Queen Vic Jubilee, 1902 Coronation or 1911 Delhi Durbar rolls.

[Muerrisch]

Thank you: hmmmmm ..................

herewith massive close-up, with added demarcations to assist.

my latest opinion, from left:

IGS 1854-95

IGS 96-02

Delhi or Coro 1911 [ribbon a very good fit]

LSGC post 1917

and the photo taken using ortho about 1923.

Mind you, can we be sure about the regiment?

I'll do a blow-up of cap badge.

[battiscombe]

Feb 1900 army list has 2nd Inniskillings at Meen Mer Punjab .. not in India later.. 1st Bn was at Tientsin for several years prewar

[wainfleet]

Those are certainly regimental buttons of some sort. Is that a castle on them? Purely from the service dress aspect, 1923 would be about right, as this iteration of the service cap, with the small peak, was phased out around this time or very soon after.

[Muerrisch]

Oh, thank you ............ so he could have got the two India GS, returned Home, and, with LS&GC in the bag [long since, I imagine], was issued the coronation 1911 with the rations. Looked after the Depot during the Great War, and put up all the new entitlement of GC badges when orders changed, posed for photo just before ortho became unusual, and retired, presumably to a grace-and -favour near the barracks with a four ale bar handy. Definitely R Inn Fus from cap badge in closeup.

He is, by the way, my GC badge record-holder: I have many with more than 5, and a sprinkling of 8s and 10s.

BUT COULD HE BEND HIS ARM TO SHIFT A PINT, OR WAS HE RIGHT HANDED?

[spof]

Feb 1900 army list has 2nd Inniskillings at Meen Mer Punjab .. not in India later.. 1st Bn was at Tientsin for several years prewar

And the 1st were collecting QSAs.

Here are the battalions listed on the 1911 Durbar Roll

1 Royal Scots

1 KORL

1 NF

1 Warks

2 RF (City of London)

1 King's Liverpool

2 Norfolk

1 Lincs

2 East Yorks

2 Leicester

1 Lancs Fus

2 Cheshire

1 KOSB

2 Worcs

4 Worcs

2 East Surrey

1 West Riding

1 Border

2 Dorset

1 South Lancs

2 Black Watch

1 Essex

1 Sherwood F

2 Loyal North LAncs

2 Berks

2 KSLI

1 Middx

3 Middx

2 KRRC

1 Mancs

1 Y & L

1 DLI

1 HLI

1 Seaforth

2 Gordons

1 R Ir Rif

2 Irish Fus

1 Munster Fus

1 Dub Fus

2 RB

[battiscombe]

I just found this old posting from Swizz

Posted 22 February 2006 - 01:55 PM

"There was a man serving at the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers depot in either Omagh or Enniskillen (can't remember which) in 1914 who was pretty old - at least 70. I can't remember any further details about him, although I think I'm right in saying that he didn't serve abroad. If I can dig anything up about him I'll post it here

Swizz"

[Muerrisch]

Thanks, people. I have no doubt the cap badge is R Inn F ......... I can post it if necessary.

Does anyone have the Coronation roll: my book says "the first time such medals presented to those not actually present for the ceremony" which gives the old boy a chance.

And please may I have comment on the ribbon identification?