WW1 - if enlisted at Southend on Sea, Essex, which battalion?

[KevinBattle]

Thanks Frances and ken-f (Sarfend sounding name!!)

Even in 1910, the tram system was fed by overhead electric wires, viz:

Tram Office, Victoria Circus, 1910 Southend’s tram service began in 1901, the tram office at Victoria Circus opened in 1910. As the tram system grew, Victoria Circus became known as ‘Cobweb Corner’ for the many overhead wires which came together there. The Tram Office was demolished in 1932

That skill might mean that although he volunteered (presumably?) he might not have joined an Essex Battalion but Army Service Corps or Royal Engineers (Railways section).

However, if he didn't go to France, the "gassing" becomes a bit suspect.

Any idea of what "atrocities" us Poms were blamed for when he attended that War Memorial Service (Gallipoli/ANZAC Day or Remembrance Day?)

If we can establish just what "he" was blamed for, we might establish a better connection.

I don't think Fromelles etc had been known back then, and it certainly wasn't an atrocity to blame "us" for....

Thanks for clarifying the Australian aspect and confirmation on Norwich.

Perhaps need to go into proper Family History mode to try and trace any Norfolk relations who might answer some of the missing details.

18784 is obviously a very likely candidate, but nothing really ties up as verifying that so far.

[KeeFran]

I will ring my Dad today and give him the 3rd degree.

I think the Aussies were probably ill-informed at the time in 1969, and various stories had perpetuated over the years into a general dislike of English re War responsibilities. All sides suffered horrendous losses, but for those directly involved, it's easy to see how they felt they were the only ones sacrificing, and they are more than entitled to those feelings. Eg I read the South African Delville Wood site, fabulous site, however, you could come away with the conclusion they were the only ones fighting there.

My journey into this research has given me a new respect for soldiers, of all countries.

More info soon I hope,

Cheers,

Frances

[KevinBattle]

While you've got the thumbscrews on

Ask if there is anything tangible at all, letters, photo's medals or anything at all relating to what he might have done during WW1 and why moved to Norwich or what happened when he died in the Aldershot area.... what might seem insignificant might be the needed clue.

[kenf48]

I think the Aussies were probably ill-informed at the time in 1969, and various stories had perpetuated over the years into a general dislike of English re War responsibilities.

I don't think they were that ill informed, as this 'essay' by Dr Peter Stanley notes it is a common theme in the memoirs in the AWM http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/australia_01.shtml

This was also reinforced in the 60s - at the beginning of the decade Alan Clark had published his 'Donkeys'; there was a renewed interest in the war poets and their fairly narrow view of the conflict and finally in 1969 'Oh what a lovely war' would have confirmed their prejudice. It carries on to this day, for example in Peter Weir's Gallipolli and 'Somme Mud' both endorsed by the eminent Bill Gammage referred to in Stanley's article.

btw I didn't realise you were in oz when I suggested the AVL might be a bit of a problem tracking it down as very few are online.

Ken

[KeeFran]

Thumbscrews on Dad has produced the following:

Herbert Edward was seen to be wearing medals at the ANZAC day parade in 1969 in Sydney. More than a SWB, but not a chest full of medals. Two or Three.

Also, leg injury which resulted in limp,

and was a prisoner of war,

Definitely served in France.

So no further info re Aldershot, or Norwich.

I will keep searching and trying to find other relatives who may know more or have the medals

Meanwhile, a huge thanks for your interest and help.

Will upload photo of Herbert shortly,

Cheers,

Frances

[KeeFran]

Herbert Edward Turner and grandson Michael Edward Keemer C1950 at Tilbury Docks