About "Photos by a Battlefield Digger"

[GaryDiggerGreece]

Before some months someone here put a topic with the name

Photos by a Battlefield Digger

Well first of all, im the Gary and yes im relic hunter, i like to digging in battlefields of WW1 and WW2. Here in Greece we have both of this two wars battlefields. Here i live in north Greece Macedonia, we have the great Macedonian front battlefields wich took place at 1915 untill September 1918 with the fall of Bulgarian army and the win of Edent powers, Great Britain France Greece and Serbia, make great battles here in Macedonian front against German Bulgarian and Austro-Hungary empire armies.

Im also History and Relic Lover. Before some years i take my first Metal Dedector and i go to the WW1 Macedonian's front battlefields and i was start to search relics of WW1. For first time i was for 2 years on Skra di Legen battlefields, Skra di Legen is next to my village, was a ww1 battle wich took place at May 16 1918 between Greeks and Bulgars Soldiers. The great win of Greek army was finish the war in this place at September of 1918 with the defeat of Bulgarian amry.

My video about Skra di Legen battle:

Im going in all of the ww1 Macedonian front for relic hunting, battlefields like Skra di Legen, Dobro Pole(September 1918 French and Serbian army against German Bulgarian army), Doiran battlefields(Greek and British army against Bulgarian army), Tzena-Sarena battlefields(Serbian and Greek army against Bulgarian and German army), and the Great Kajmaktsalan(Voras Greek mountain) battlefields of 1916-18 battles of Serbian army against Bulgarian army, They are my favorite places for WW1 relic hunting. I have learn thousand things about military ammo items etc.

Now about the topic, im alive ofcourse, im ungry with guys who call me stupid, the stupid is you who call me like this. I know what i do, and i make it with all of my love and i know everthing for explode relics like grenades shells etc. I have to say about explode relics that, i take only some empty grenades and not alive grenades and shells. Im rational and not stupid, i have learn many things about ww1 militaria and i can teach anyone in this forum, you can talk with me for this. I do this hobby not for money(like other relic hunters) and i dont put all of the relics in my collection, i have make a beautiful Video about Skra di Legen and my proud to be Greek, and a beautiful Museum for people who want to see WW1 history and relics. Id like to thank the guys who found beautiful tht i make and i want to say yes, it is beautiful its very beautiful military searching, its beautiful to found something wich whrite the history about this, and very ROMANTIC to found a relic something wich holded from a guy wich the history talk about him, and the next hand wich hold this item its yours, too beautiful for me.

Now for the human remains wich found from me. Im not grave robber or thief, many times i have listen this, its stupid because i have never go for dug up any grave for take the dead's personal items. OPPOSITE its great you find a wanted dead guy who was unknown after the battle and their commrandes put him in list of wanted lost soldiers. Many times i have found soldiers who wanted and the list of lost soldiers be smaller. This Is GREAT!!

The fail of the guys who think me grave robber, is when im going for relic hunting some times my Metal Dedector hit sound for something BIG(any rifle helmet etc.) and when im digging i fall in a soldier who take bury with his rifle and helmet and my dedector found them. This is very NORMAL and not crime, because this guy may was take buried not from his commrades, but from any Big Shell Bomb wich take blow up next or in front of the soldier and bury him with soil and stones. THIS IS HISTORY REFUTE!!

LAST of all now i want to meet you my page on facebook that some of you knows it. WW1 - WW2 Relic Hunting(Excavation on Battlefields)

http://www.facebook....161035087279074

Thank you, Giannis Karagewrgiou Greece.

[trenchtrotter]

Thankyou for posting. Interesting views of a battlefield I know little about. I visit France often and there are plenty of live shells there. Best advice is to photograph only but that mesage has been circulated many times.

The video was nice to view and the music very well chosen. What were the pieces especially the music from the second half?

I am visiting your beutiful country soon and cannot wait to experience the Greek hospitality.

Regards from UK

TT

[JimSmithson]

Hi Giannis

I can understand that you may have felt offended by many of the comments on the other thread but you have to understand where the members of the Forum were coming from.

Thousands of people visit the battlefields of France and Belgium every year. Many of them come accross unexploded munitions that have surfaced after farm activity. The message has to be a very strong one - do not touch! You say you are experienced, but can you identify every different kind of munition (including gas)used in either wars, there are few who can. Also, did your military training cover the handling of munitions that had been in the ground for almost 100 years - I think not. Anyone looking at you Facebook site might be tempted to collect for themselves, with possible deadly consequences - do you want that on your conscience.

Another factor which will have upset readers is the legal one. In the first place it is illegal to use a metal detector in France to search for battlefield relics without permission. It is also illegal to handle any form of munition. If someone followed your ideas over here they could find themselves in trouble, even if they don't touch unexploded material.

Finally, and here I must agree with many of the responses, both on the original thread a year ago and the ones on this Forum, you have a cavalier attitude towards the finding of remains. It is not for you to bury remains and put a cross up (as you say you do on the other site). You have absolutely no right to do this. I notice on your Facebook site a number of French and German artifacts. I know for sure that if you have found human remains from those countries, from either war, and have simply reburied them the respective organisations responsible would be very disturbed; as would the Ministry of Defence in the UK.

It is not only important for you to understand the feelings of those who fear for your safety, those you can ignore if you wish. However; it is wrong for you to ignore those who voice their concerns over a non-scientific and in some ways disrespectful digging up of historical sites.

Jim

[GaryDiggerGreece]

Jim i saw your post right now, well i have to say something about your question for unexplode ammunitions you ask about. As i say im expert of these items because im reading every day about all of ammunition kinds of wars (WW1 WW2). I have found many times danger relics like poison gas ammo in grenade or shell form. With my experience i know how to dug up these items and what to do with them. Im so expert with them wich i have deactivate many times, hand grenades, rifle grenades, shells, and other dangerus ammunition relics. But i have to say something about your fear and fear of the guys here. Dont thing that these items are so dangerus, many times i have hit shells or grenades to their detonators and nothing happened, that because WW1 ammunitions was primeval construction and their detonators and exploding system have take too much junk. Your fear is big because you have never go in with any ammunition item any grenade or anything, that you thing they are TOO MUCH dangers. When you go in with something like that you will see it.

But they exist also and accidents like this guy from Slovenia: who killed by a WW1 grenade when his try to remove the rust from she's body and hit her in a stone http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=308290749220173&set=a.161439623905287.32586.161035087279074&type=3

But as i say they are few diggers especialy in Russia wich making relic hunting, watch them here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.161439623905287.32586.161035087279074&type=3

For the human remains now, i didnt say now im make bury on human remains when i found them, i say that we making excavations for relics and we fall on buried soldiers with their metal person al items(helmets rifles etc). When this happens we unbury them and try tou found their ID tags(dog tags) or something else to understand what guy is, what country came from and other. When we finish with that we call people or authories and bury them in military cemeteries and graves with their commrades or wee send him on his fammily, read what i whrite please, and watch this link, what we making on:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=307053339343914&set=a.161439623905287.32586.161035087279074&type=3

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=297407616975153&set=a.161439623905287.32586.161035087279074&type=3

[Marco]

The finds are laughable as is the handeling of complete munitions. Looking forward to reading a third party report when it goes wrong.

Regards,

Marco

[mmckay395]

Excellent, very Interesting piece. Although I would reiterate the above point about reporting any remains that you find.

There isn't enough about fighting in the Balkans in English literature. This and your Facebook page will educate I hope.

Where will your museum be located? I will have to add it to my list of places to visit.

Mark

[GaryDiggerGreece]

Thank you mmckay395, our museum is in Crete island in Greece, made from my best friend for start and we put there many relics, this is his page about this museum: http://www.facebook.com/pages/%CE%A0%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C-%CE%9C%CE%BF%CF%85%CF%83%CE%B5%CE%AF%CE%BF-%CE%A3%CF%84%CE%AD%CE%BB%CE%B9%CE%BF%CF%85-%CE%A4%CF%81%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%B9%CF%84%CE%AC%CE%BA%CE%B7-Stelios-Tripalitakis-War-Museum/161216617274726

I also will start to make a big museum with many relics here in Macedonia north Greece to, in my prefecture, with Macedonian Front's war relics ofcourse

[JimSmithson]

Sorry to press a point but in a post on the other forum you answered a question regarding remains by stating that you had personally reburied the bones and installed a cross. If that is not true why did you say it? Your comment about not thinking that these 'primitive devices' are dangerous is why folk comment in the way they do. It is not a responsible thing to write in a public arena.

Please tell us that when you find live munitions you hand them over to the correct authorities to dispose of them. I am particularly concerned about your finding gas shells, even the experts in France find such finds difficult to deal with. What I read above does not, I am afraid, allay any of my fears for your safety, nor that of any who accompany you or try and follow your example. I think you should just accept that the vast majority on here are going to have the same or similar opinion.

Keep safe.

Jim

[GaryDiggerGreece]

Jim this topic on Landships is 2 years ago old, i have delete my nick name there, i was put whrong words and this is no true, i have developing this sector(ekhumation on battlefields). So you can ignore my words on this forum, its not exist now on.

When i found danger items like ammunition relics shells grenades gas etc wich are steel alive, i dont go in with them, i just put them in a hole and bury them, or in caves. Only that, you dont need to fvear or worry about my safety im ok i know what i do, i do it many years now, you can see me im safe im ok, thank you

[JohnHenrys Grand-daughter]

Well Guys,this thread is long past,but I have to say,where was your deplomacy,or tact.

To me,this poor chap was so very proud of his achievements,thats all (looking from outside of "the box").

Yes what he did was very challenging to you,and maybe quite wrong,I am not disagreeing with you,but,maybe,he could have gleaned some life saving information from you,or,maybe not,he may not have taken notice,but we will never know,life is a learning curve,and he was so very offended.

The truth can often hurt,but its how it is put over that is the killer.

I am new on here,and you Chaps and Ladies have a wealth of knowledge,which I truly applaude,you are amazing,this chap has a passion,like most of us,he just goes about it the wrong way,self taught.

He is not brilliant with words,but hes not bad either,he could have genuinely mistaken words,or described things wrongly,you tried to help him,but the written word can be very misleading,not like the spoken,especially if you are from another country.

I am not taking sides,just an " outsider ",a "novice" looking in,neutral.

Apologies if I offend,not intended at all.

On that note Im off before dawn !

N.B,this is a wonderful site,I am learning so much,Thank-you all..x

[DB1]

The most amazing thing is that when Gary saw the comments on the original topic about him he said he would like to meet and talk, there then followed silence from his critics. Nearly fell off my seat!!

Probably seemed like a good idea at the time, call the poor guy lots of names, he will never see it will he, oops

Hope you are still out there Gary, great country and great people.

[JohnHenrys Grand-daughter]

The most amazing thing is that when Gary saw the comments on the original topic about him he said he would like to meet and talk, there then followed silence from his critics. Nearly fell off my seat!!

Probably seemed like a good idea at the time, call the poor guy lots of names, he will never see it will he, oops

Hope you are still out there Gary, great country and great people.

Thanks for That,I was a bit worried I had put my foot in it,and I wholheartedly stan behind you with the

" Great country and great people".

Yx

[DB1]

Hi

Only time will tell if you have put your foot in it. Personally I welcome honesty and I thought you put your point across well.

Just be aware there is the facility to personal message people and if you upset one of the more senior members you may find there is a sudden lack of cooperation in future posts.

[trajan]

Well I went through the older posts and I don't quite see where the idea comes that his responders have been lacking in diplomacy and tact. I think there is a genuine worry and concern that Garry might be taking risks with unexploded munitions, and also that any human remains he discovers are not being treated with all due respect, and that through improper excavation (he is relic-hunting) the evidence of identity of such remains might be forever lost.

[DB1]

It's a different country and a different culture, especially with regard to safety. With regard to human remains being improperly excavated and losing evidence that may identify remains, hasn't that been going on in Europe since the end of the war by ploughing the battlefields?.

[JohnHenrys Grand-daughter]

It's a different country and a different culture, especially with regard to safety. With regard to human remains being improperly excavated and losing evidence that may identify remains, hasn't that been going on in Europe since the end of the war by ploughing the battlefields?.

So very true.

[JohnHenrys Grand-daughter]

Hi

Only time will tell if you have put your foot in it. Personally I welcome honesty and I thought you put your point across well.

Just be aware there is the facility to personal message people and if you upset one of the more senior members you may find there is a sudden lack of cooperation in future posts.

Hi,

Thank-you DBI,its rather a shame that any attitude may be taken,I came on here to learn,and you learn by reading,and I am learning so much.

If anyone,including the more senior members are offended,then they are not the " men" I thought them to be,but boys.So be it.

Adding to that,the people that have helped me,I appreciate very much,and nothing will remove my respect fpr them,including you.

kindest Regards,

Yvonne.

[Spartyguss]

Hi,

In my mind,

I feel that digging on battlefields should be stopped/banned out of respect. Which should only be carried out by controlled archaeology methods with the correct permission & consent these places are potential war graveyards . Sadly I see items for sale on ebay from battlefields such as the Somme etc its just not respectful of the soldiers lost forever in the fields . I have watched in sadness people digging helmets and pieces of personal soldiers gear from WW1 & WW2 battlefields across Europe and elsewhere, with little regard to recording these finds and items. How will we ever be able to reunite the lost soldiers remains with their families once the evidence has been ripped from the ground. I can understand the excitement of finding lost forgotten history but I believe its wrong to be searching these battlefields for relics as trophy, more should be done to protect and respect these battlefields for what they are, War graves. These areas should be searched in a controlled scientific respectful way by using archaeological methods.

Its my opinion and I am sorry if it up set's anyone its just how I feel about these areas where people and soldiers of all nations were blown apart,leaving only traces of themselves in the form of personal gear which they may have been wearing when they left this earth, god bless.

Regards Gary.

[depaor01]

I couldn't agree more Spartyguss,

I think Gary in Crete at least provides context for his finds. They end up in his museum. The items are available to the public and he displays respect for the dead. I know it's a subtle difference, but the amount of stuff on eBay unashamedly advertised as being from Kurland is truly sickening.

My uncle's brother was killed there and his body was never recovered. People plundering that or any battlefield for personal items to flog for personal gain are beneath contempt.

Dave

[Blackblue]

Well Guys,this thread is long past,but I have to say,where was your deplomacy,or tact.To me,this poor chap was so very proud of his achievements,thats all (looking from outside of "the box").Yes what he did was very challenging to you,and maybe quite wrong,I am not disagreeing with you,but,maybe,he could have gleaned some life saving information from you,or,maybe not,he may not have taken notice,but we will never know,life is a learning curve,and he was so very offended.The truth can often hurt,but its how it is put over that is the killer.I am new on here,and you Chaps and Ladies have a wealth of knowledge,which I truly applaude,you are amazing,this chap has a passion,like most of us,he just goes about it the wrong way,self taught.He is not brilliant with words,but hes not bad either,he could have genuinely mistaken words,or described things wrongly,you tried to help him,but the written word can be very misleading,not like the spoken,especially if you are from another country.I am not taking sides,just an " outsider ",a "novice" looking in,neutral.Apologies if I offend,not intended at all.On that note Im off before dawn !N.B,this is a wonderful site,I am learning so much,Thank-you all..x

Welcome aboard Yvonne,

If you've come here expecting diplomacy I'm afraid you might have come to the wrong place!

Rgds

Tim D

[Blackblue]

As far as digging/battlefield archeology goes there is often a very wide span between what is expected, allowed and considered reasonable in one country as opposed to another, particularly procedures (or otherwise) regards the recovery of remains and ordnance.

In many locations the authorities have no role or interest in the recovery and identification of remains or destroying UXO. Some locations in the Pacific are a case in point.

Reburying may often be the best option available in the circumstances.

Rgds

Tim D

[trajan]

It's a different country and a different culture, especially with regard to safety. With regard to human remains being improperly excavated and losing evidence that may identify remains, hasn't that been going on in Europe since the end of the war by ploughing the battlefields?.

There is a difference between the accidental destruction of human burial sites of whatever age through agriculture and the deliberate destruction through relic hunting.

[Blackblue]

I think his point is that it is horses for courses.....there are a wide array of different rules and viewpoints. Just because some of us have an expectation of things being approached in a certain way does not mean that others in different places with different rules have the same view or culture.

In some places people's livelihoods are derived from relic/ordnance hunting, with no cultural expectations, no regulations and no requirement for local authorities to make recoveries if remains are found. Instead of deliberate destruction it's just taking what is needed and leaving remains in situ. Some know they will be rewarded by foreign governments for handing in relics such as dog tags, so they actively search for them without any thought to archeological protocols or recoveries.

Whilst not ideal as far as we might view it...that's just the way it is I'm afraid.

[auchonvillerssomme]

In my younger days 35 years ago I used metal detectors in the UK and at the time there weren't many of us sneaking around fields at 2am, which to be honest was part of the excitement. I haven't used a detector since then but can understand the thrill, I do field walk and have shown pictures of my finds on this forum, I see detectorists and feel a twinge of jealousy. But I would question the effectiveness on battlefields, personally I don't care if a fool blows himself up as long as no innocents are involved, a half day out for and undertaker can't be bad. The OP hit all the wrong buttons and I doubt he will change opinions but I think the responses may have changed him.

[DB1]

There is a difference between the accidental destruction of human burial sites of whatever age through agriculture and the deliberate destruction through relic hunting.

With regard to destruction of human remains the difference here is scale ie relic hunting in Greece - small scale, farming in Belgium and France - large scale. Accidental destruction can't be a valid excuse as taking a plough onto a battlefield is an action taken through the needs of a farmer, and disturbing / destroying human remains is a reasonably foreseeable event.