21,000 unexploded bombs buried underneath Britain

[ph0ebus]

An interesting read in The Scotsman this morning:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/21-000-unexploded-bombs-buried-underneath-britain-1-2362302

Quite incredible how much of this stufff is still out there! I haven;t done the math but at the rate of the call-outs to the bomb disposal fellows, and given how much material remains out there, it will be a long, long time before it all gets cleared away!

-Daniel

[centurion]

Given that there are no reliable figures on the number of German bombs dropped on the UK in WW2 let alone what proportion of these failed to explode and were not dealt with at the time I would take these figures with a pinch of salt.

[chrislock]

This figure is also miniscule when compared to what will be underneath the German, Japanese, Russian and elsewhere's soil. I also have the latest 2012 DOVO pamphlet on my desk revealing that 300 tons of ordnance is removed from Belgium every single year!!

I also believe on top of this that they have a 25 year stock pile awaiting disposal.

Hardly surprising then that my windows almost shake themselves out of the frames twice a day here in Houthulst.

Chris

[PhilB]

With 190,000 mines still out there, why aren`t ships regularly being hit?

[Anneca]

With 190,000 mines still out there, why aren`t ships regularly being hit?

I expect they have eventually dropped to the bottom of the sea after this length of time. Even so, this is scary stuff!

[calibre792x57.y]

I have to go with Centurion. The amount of ordnance which lies in GB must be miniscule with that jettisoned by both sides in the Channel w/out worrying about sea mines. SW

[NigelS]

The wreck of the USS Richard Montgomery, because of its cargo & location must be a bit of a worry to anyone living close by or sailing past...Click

NigelS

[auchonvillerssomme]

For years I have heard the stories about the Richard Montgomery, the risk assessment is based on every piece of ordnance still being viable and exploding at the same time not takng into account the conditions of being semi buried in mud and underwater.

[centurion]

With 190,000 mines still out there, why aren`t ships regularly being hit?

There was an extensive mine clearance effort in 1919 with all charted fields being swept. Sea planes were used to spot and report any floaters which were sunk (or exploded ) by gunfire. A similar exercise took place in 1946

Just because something's in the paper doesn't necessarily make it true.

[David B]

21,000 ? The place is not big enough to hold them all.

[healdav]

The Belgians reckon that it will take about 300 years to clear all the UXB, and they or anyone else, have little idea what to do with gas shells now that they can't be sunk at sea.

They doubled the size of their UXB disposal facility about 10 years ago, but even then they can't cope.

The French navy reckon on near a century just to clear the seas off the D-Day beaches.

[Radlad]

http://www.norwester.btinternet.co.uk/bang/info.htm

I read somewhere that over a million ton of munitions were dumped in Beauforts Dyke after WWII, some of it gets washed up on nearby beaches every year

[tgrubb]

Hi

I once went to a presentation by the Geoinformation Group where a guy called Chris Going showed a WWII photo of a viaduct in Italy surrounded by hundreds of craters (it was eventually brought down by a near miss from a Tallboy) but in between the craters were equally numerous black dots representing the bombs that didn't go off. It was a sales pitch really for their Cities Revealed historic aerial photos service but it revealed just what has to be dealt with on the continent when these structures are rebuilt.

Cheers

Tim

[Ogilwy]

I would be interested to see what the newspapers definition of 'Bomb' is! Being in the business I have seen it used from everything from a 500 Kg through a 2 In Mortar to a .303 Round! Actual enemy aircraft bombs found in Uk is normally about 6 a year but sometimes as few as a couple! That is providing the organisation concerned is not requiring Stats to justify an existance when every 1 Kg Incendiary or part of is counted and number inflated to several hundred!

A single 10 man detachment of Demineur on the Somme deal with approximately 80 Tonnes per year. We do not measure it in items as that's too much and instead just use the weight. Whilst rleaxing one evening we once had a go at calculating the clearence of the Somme and estimate that if every Operator was employed just on that task, 7 days a week we could clear the area in about 400 years!!

On the bright side the job opportunities look good for me!

Radlad.

There's nothing like 1M tonnes of ammunition in the Dyke! I was part of answering the Parliamentry Question on it a few years back and it was no where near that level. The stuff that gets washed up is ammunition that was illegally dumped quite close to shore after 1945, and to my knowledge none of the items from the dyke have ever washed up. It does make a good scary headline though, and rears it's ugly head every so often.

Healdav

Disposal of chemical is done in accordance with the international convention. It is decanter treated and destroyed by incineration, the smoke from which being scrubbed so much it is actually cleaner than the normal air by the time it is released. All this is checked and tested at regular periods and ensured that it complies with the regulations. The only problem is that it is not quick and therefore in France and Belgium the on-going process of disposal has to keep up with the level of 'finds'. The larger facility helps but it is a 'painting the Forth Bridge' job!

AVS,

The Monty only has un-fuzed dumb ordnance on it. Again this is a story that gets wheeled out periodically. It usually arrives when some NIMBY wants to stop an airport of some such new build in the region. It then requires us to yet again work for days to get the new (same) data taking us away from the real job. One that really annoys me if you hadn't guessed!

Rod

[Radlad]

Thankyou for the correction sir, the press has a lot to answer for

Quote from the Sunday Express 8th May 2011

(Quote)

By Ben Borland

MORE than a million tonnes of unexploded bombs dumped in Scottish waters could be disturbed by a planned undersea electricity cable, resulting in deadly explosives washing up on beaches

(Unquote)

[Ogilwy]

The press use the facts as a guideline, they then seem to build up from there to a story! I've even read articles on this subject without a single fact right, and having been the Operator I think (hope) I should know!

Rod

[bill24chev]

Is there, or are there detailed and accurate records of how many devices (explosive & incendry) bombs actually dropped in Zeppelin & Gotha raids on the Uk in WW1.

I ask this because my father always beleived that some of the bombs dropped in the Deane Rd./Derby St area of Botlon did not explode in the raid of September 1916. I must say that this would only be hearsay on the part of my father bercause he was only a toddler of two in September 1916 so I doubt if this idea was his own, he did live nearb, under the flight path of the Zep as shown in "Zepplins over Lancashire". The location of those that exploded and i think at least one that did not are documented in this booklet but there is no mention of any UXB;s in the DerbySt/Deane Rd. area.

The location where most devastation and casualties occured is more or less at the entrance area of the Eagle campus of The university of Bolton. I was a student there when the work to build the entance area was going on and half expected to be evacuated from lectures at this time because of an UXB.

[Anneca]

http://www.norwester...k/bang/info.htm

I read somewhere that over a million ton of munitions were dumped in Beauforts Dyke after WWII, some of it gets washed up on nearby beaches every year

I live on the County Down coast and several years ago got the shock of my life when walking along the beach. It was covered with strange objects, some of which were glowing, some of which were smoking and some burst into flames before my eyes. It was like something alien had dropped these strange things from the sky. Then I heard what they were and that they didn't ignite until dried out by the sun. Scary stuff!

[Ogilwy]

They are white phosphorous and have been found in both NI and Scotland. I worked directly on these when they first showed up in about 97-98.

They do not conform to any known ammunition or filling, and the ones we first encounted were wax paper wrapped. We believe they are a comercial item used in industry and were illegally dumped in the Irish sea. As there are no markings or any identification of any kind the investigation was dropped.

I've not heard of any for some time but if encountered they should be left well alone and reported with all haste. WP as many here will know ignites spontaniously on contact with air! If it gets on the skin it will stick and cause both sever burns and systemic poisoning.

Rod

[ph0ebus]

Lest folks think this type of thing does not happen here in the states, on a local beach growing up we had some type of torpedo come up on shore, to the surprise of the locals and the dispay of the local police. If you look at nautical charts of the Long Island Sound you may note huge sections that are designated as dumping grounds for just such things. Another fellow beachwalking ended up coming home with the wing-mounted Browning machine gun from a WWII-era Grumman Hellcat. Surprisingly, it was in bad enough shape that the police let him keep it!

-Daniel

[Ogilwy]

Don't forget all the 'dirty' range areas that are now being cleaned in the States. Some of those have quite horrendous quantities of blinds on them.

Rod

[healdav]

quote

You are correct, but there is so much and until a facility was built nothing to be done with it, so the Belgians piled it all up and there is now a fort of WW1 vintage full of the things waiting their turn.

[ph0ebus]

Don't forget all the 'dirty' range areas that are now being cleaned in the States. Some of those have quite horrendous quantities of blinds on them.

Rod

My brother knows all about that. Once all the things that go boom are cleared he and his company attend to the chemical nightmare that remains in the earth.

-Daniel

[bill24chev]

its not feasable on Artillery ranges, but on grenade ranges it was SOP for any blinds to be dealt with there and then.

I know this because I once through a blind Type 80 W. Phos grenade. I had to act as the "saftey man" for the poor 2nd lieutenant who was saftey oficer and who had to locate and deal with it with Plastic Explosive. My role was to walk with him to about 20 meters from the grenade where we checked the timing of the det cord and measure the correct amount of espolsive needed then he set off to place the charge next to the blind.

He lit the det cord walked back to me and we knew we had at least 30 seconds to get to the more obvious saftey of the throwing trench about 15 meters further back. However in the next range someone fired a Charley G and this made us both jump a bit.

[Ogilwy]

Bill

It is expected that all blinds on Arty ranges are recorded and reported but periodically we get Units who find that chore a bit much!

No80's were always problematic. They were in service a long time and so had a higher incidence of blinds. I know range blinds should be cleared by the user but, it's raining, we ran out of explosive, we couldn't find it or it's Friday afternoon all cancel that out. Still it keeps me in a job, so can't complain!!

Rod

P.S. I know exactly what you mean about 84mm's, the 120 was even worse!