" pink cards and white cards"

[lee44002]

Could somebody please explain the award of pink and white cards, and for what they were awarded for.

Thankyou.Lee.

I know they were awarded for gallantry but which is which and what award.

[lee44002]

I find it hard to believe no one knows what these are.

Still, never mind.

Lee.

[CGM]

Hello Lee,

I'm not sure what you mean by white cards, although I have seen some very pale pink cards.

Just to start the ball rolling, for pink, do you mean medal index cards (MIC)?

These are explained on the Long Long Trail here:

http://www.1914-1918...grandad/mic.htm

CGM

[roughdiamond]

Can you post examples to illustrate what you mean?

Sam

[centurion]

And SWB cards appear to have been mainly brown. I think a little more clarity in your original question rather than a snarky remark might help.

[tipperary]

Are these cards for MSM's and or MID's, about half the size of an MIC also in a light bue or green. If i think right they were issued at maybe regimental level. john

[kenf48]

As noted above a bit more clarity, or context, in your question might help.

The Divisional Commander of the 12th Division instituted a system of red and green cards to 'assure the men concerned of his appreciation before the publication of honours', which often took place some time afterwards.

A red card signified the recommendation had been passed up the chain of command; a green card denoted it had not been passed on beyond Division but that the Divisional Commander had noted the action for a future occasion or possible m.i.d. So for example in one Battalion following an action in 1916 fourteen men were given red cards (and all later received the MM) although at the parade only eight were present due to wounds, four other soldiers were presented with green cards. The cards were presented by senior officers at various parades when Battalions were out of the line, sometimes it was noted that both cards (for future awards) and medal ribbons (for past actions) were presented at the same parade.

I don't know if that's what you're referring to, as I said this was a practice in 12th Division, whether it operated with different colour cards in other Divisions I don't know but it seems a good idea for general morale.

Ken

[kenf48]

Sorry to reply to my own post but to add to the above George Coppard (12th Division) reports that in 1918 when he was awarded the MM but was in hospital in England his CO wrote to him congratulating him on his award and sent him what was referred to as a 'Soup Ticket'.

George describes the 'Soup Ticket' as a blue linen card which said,

" Your Commanding Officer and Brigade Commander have informed me that you have distinguished yourself by your conduct in the field. I have read their report with much pleasure.

Signed A.B. Scott Major General Commanding 12th Division."

(With a Machine Gun to Cambrai)

So it would seem the system, even in 12th Division, evolved as the war went on. We now have red, green and blue but unfortunately still no pink and white!

Ken

[tipperary]

Lee and Ken on the forum somewhere are pictures of examples of this type of card i have no clue where to begin a search.john

[lee44002]

As noted above a bit more clarity, or context, in your question might help.

The Divisional Commander of the 12th Division instituted a system of red and green cards to 'assure the men concerned of his appreciation before the publication of honours', which often took place some time afterwards.

A red card signified the recommendation had been passed up the chain of command; a green card denoted it had not been passed on beyond Division but that the Divisional Commander had noted the action for a future occasion or possible m.i.d. So for example in one Battalion following an action in 1916 fourteen men were given red cards (and all later received the MM) although at the parade only eight were present due to wounds, four other soldiers were presented with green cards. The cards were presented by senior officers at various parades when Battalions were out of the line, sometimes it was noted that both cards (for future awards) and medal ribbons (for past actions) were presented at the same parade.

I don't know if that's what you're referring to, as I said this was a practice in 12th Division, whether it operated with different colour cards in other Divisions I don't know but it seems a good idea for general morale.

Ken

Its just that in the Lincs war diaries at one point The G.O.C gave Pink cards to some men and white cards to others, Pictures as follows, these were in the war diaries for 1/4th Lincolns, Hope this helps clear up a few quetions.

Cheers.Lee

[David B]

I recently read a book about the 2/19th Bn 2nd AIF (Yeah, Yeah I know it is ww2 but please bear with me), and in it there is reference to commendation

cards being awarded to various men for acts of bravery which did not warrant the award of a medal. I had never heard of these cards prior to this but wonder

if the system started in the GW and was carried on to the next conflict.

[Stebie9173]

Yes, it was around in the Great War.

Divisional cards (also known as parchments) were awarded to men who were generally also recommended up to Corps level for medals. A large percentage of these men were subsequently awarded the Military Medal or other gallantry medals.

Steve.

[kenf48]

Lee

Thanks for the clarification it looks like a similar system, just different colour cards for their Division.

All we/you have to do now is look up the gazette or war diaries to see if any/all of the white card men were subsequently awarded the MM or DCM and that should nail it bearing in mind the dates these awards were instituted.

[ It seems a similar ratio to the example I gave for a Bn in the 12th Division.]

Ken

[lee44002]

Lee

Thanks for the clarification it looks like a similar system, just different colour cards for their Division.

All we/you have to do now is look up the gazette or war diaries to see if any/all of the white card men were subsequently awarded the MM or DCM and that should nail it bearing in mind the dates these awards were instituted.

[ It seems a similar ratio to the example I gave for a Bn in the 12th Division.]

Ken

The pink card men are a mixture of MM, MSM and DCM, not known as yet if these were awarded for this instance or later, though 4 don't appear in any award list, 951 Sgt J LICKORISH , 984 Sgt S SMITH, 1974 RSM F SHEPERD and 1015 CSM A PEASGOOD. Can only assume these men didnt quite make the award criteria. As for the white card, neither men are listed anywhere.

1784 Pte F HIBBS did get his DCM for this date (13th Oct 1915) along with 390 Cpl C W JACKSON also DCM and 2322 CSM C H MASTERS again DCM.

Dont have MM or MSM rolls to hand but could be aslo the same dates for these.

Thanks for all your help, Just need the 30th April 1916 war diary page 1/4th Lincolns and thinks are ticker t boo.

Cheers Lee.

[Bingo794]

Chaps

Were these not known as Divisional Honour Cards?

There is a section on them in Williamson's which gives comprehensive detail of the types issued.

I have one in my collection to a chap in the 10th Lincolns, an original Grimsby Chum, No.702 Cpl. Charles Robinson Cartwright MM CdG awarded for actions between the 9th and 14th April, 1918 at Arras...................it gives a short description of Charles actions running messages. It is with his medal entitlement of MM, BWM, VM and CdG, along with his Death Plaque.

Shortly after this award he was confirmed as an MM and a little later, the CdG. One of only two awarded to the 10th Linc R., the other going to a 2/Lt. Proctor.

I thought these were well documented items.

DickW

[CGM]

Excellent DickW.

Using Divisional Honour Cards I have now found several links. Here are a few:

 

and one you yourself posted in, in 2011

 

And Divisional Honour Books and badges:

 

CGM

[Chris]

Bit more info on some of the men.

Augustus Peasgood was also awarded the DCM for his actions on 13th and 14th October 1915, as were Charles Jackson and Hibbs as you point out. Masters was awarded the DCM but in 1917 the citation mentioning 13th October and also the spring of 1916 on Vimy Ridge. Good picture, if memory serves me right of Peasgood in Middlebrooks book on the Battalion in 1915 centred around the Staniland's.

Oliver Bannister was awarded the MSM in the Birthdays Honours List of 1919, for his service through the whole war, at this time he was with the 1/5th Lincs. He had his name submitted for the MM in 1916 but this was not accepted. Many of those awarded MM's for their actions on 13th October must have been submitted in 1916, as i do not think the MM came into being until then. Many of the 1/5th Lincs awarded MM's for 13th October are awarded in 1916. Maybe the names were resubmitted once the MM came into existance. 2849 Lilley may come into this group as he was awarded the MM in 1916, but i have no idea for what action or actions this related to.

Chris

[roughdiamond]

Serjeant Lickorish was killed in the action http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/734170/LICKORISH,%20JAMES

Sam

[lee44002]

Just found the DCM listing for Peasgood, dont know how i missed it. Dont have a dated list for MM only a total list which gives no dates or actions,(only full list of all medals I have is for 1/5th)

[Bingo794]

Excellent DickW.

Using Divisional Honour Cards I have now found several links. Here are a few:

http://1914-1918.inv...showtopic=73569

http://1914-1918.inv...showtopic=45151

and one you yourself posted in, in 2011

http://1914-1918.inv...howtopic=165336

And Divisional Honour Books and badges:

http://1914-1918.inv...showtopic=51313

CGM

Nice one....I was looking for that post to contact the lady from Swaby.

Cheers

DickW

[yellow]

Bit more info on some of the men.

Augustus Peasgood was also awarded the DCM for his actions on 13th and 14th October 1915, as were Charles Jackson and Hibbs as you point out. Masters was awarded the DCM but in 1917 the citation mentioning 13th October and also the spring of 1916 on Vimy Ridge. Good picture, if memory serves me right of Peasgood in Middlebrooks book on the Battalion in 1915 centred around the Staniland's.

Raising this post from the dead.

Which Peasgood? Arthur or Augustus? Both brothers were CSMs of the 4th in 1915.

Arthur served with Staniland in SA.......Gus (DCM) did not.

According to the Stamford Mercury Arthur was wounded on April 13th 1915. Shrapnel wound left forearm, behind the front line trench.

Since MIddlebrook is estimating the photograph was taken around May 1915 and the photograph is annotated A. Peasgood (See L L Collection) it is impossible to say which brother is in the photograph.

Always on the look out for any Stamford NCO photographs to categorically prove exactly who it is, in that photograph.I have the photographs of the DCM in the 1920's, it looks nothing like the head shaven Peasgood in the photograph but by that time he could of put on a lot of weight. Too hard to tell.

There are some private papers to a Peasgood in the IWM. http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1030014168 Sadly the cataloguer negelcts to tell us which Peasgood!

Always be careful when you use the name Peasgood in the context of the Lincolnshire Regiment and Stamford. There were three NCO's with the same surname, all brothers all Lincolnshire Regiment. The final brother I haven't mentioned, fell off a horse that tripped and was wounded!