Muerrisch Posted 25 May , 2012 Share Posted 25 May , 2012 Nice example of a nonsense item [MY OPINION, OF COURSE!] at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-BED-PLATE-SCOTS-GUARDS-/110885915713?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item19d150cc41 Purports to be SG bed/Duty plate. Question: given that the soldier was required to place/have his name and number on the plate, where oh! where was he to put it? ANY BED PLATE NOT NAMED AND NUMBERED NEEDS CAREFUL SCRUTINY AND THE LOCATION OF ANY INTENDED NAME AND NUMBER CONSIDERED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 25 May , 2012 Share Posted 25 May , 2012 Would every serviceman have been issued their own bedplate? Possibly I don't know, but with the numbers of them on the market I would have thought they were redundant stores items. Wouldn't the bigger question be whether it was WW1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 25 May , 2012 Share Posted 25 May , 2012 Its the 'right' shape and there seem to be a lot of un-named bedplates out there but as you say where does he put his name? I'd agree with Auchonvillers - is it a bed plate? There must have been a requirement to mark some items with the regimental ID to dissuade thieving bas ....er . comrades in arms from other units nic.... er borrowing stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruilooze Posted 25 May , 2012 Share Posted 25 May , 2012 pardon my ignorance but what exactly is a bed plate? I have googled ww1 bedplate but only found links to fleabay and other sales sites. Am I correct that it would be attatched to a bed? I assume that it is somekind of identification mark. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 25 May , 2012 Share Posted 25 May , 2012 pardon my ignorance but what exactly is a bed plate? I have googled ww1 bedplate but only found links to fleabay and other sales sites. Am I correct that it would be attatched to a bed? Or a locker etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 25 May , 2012 Share Posted 25 May , 2012 There must have been a requirement to mark some items with the regimental ID to dissuade thieving bas ....er . comrades in arms from other units nic.... er borrowing stuff. Thats exactly right - especially important when both Battalions were stationed at home within the one garrison.! The rivalry between Battalions sometimes stronger than between Regiments. I've got examples of weapons/kit that have had the Battalion numbers (ie. 1 and/or 2) added, supposedly to guard against them being "misplaced". Must have been fun come inspection day.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 26 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2012 Bed or Duty plates were issue items but, so far as I can ascertain, not an Ordnance product, and not a free issue either. Probably a regimental bulk order. The hole at the top is to take a brass hook which in turn hangs on a nail or suitable projection. Some plates are a different shape, pierced to take a strap. In either case the purpose was to display soldier's name and number if present, and to be reversed if absent on DUTY, with the word DUTY lightly stamped on the reverse. Makers name on many suggests Birmingham was the main provider. The Foot Guards clung on to them until fairly recently ....... in my lifetime! ............ there are many around with the current Queen's cypher [GG, that is]. There are indeed versions NOT for naming: they have a three-sided slot/box in which to diisplay a card, such as the incumbent or function of an office. Some units handed the recruit a blank and a set of tools for stamping and said 'get on with it': plenty of space was needed for clumsy attempts! Items with low regimental numbers are very collectable, bringing together as much potted history as a named medal. My prized item is an IG with a three-digit number, presumably the year of founding. Finally, some regiments have very clever and interesting designs, both the Staffords for example use the knot itself as the plate. I am a keen collector but would never buy an un-named example without space for a name or indeed anything useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 26 May , 2012 Share Posted 26 May , 2012 I will dig out my examples and see what I have, I know one of them, forgotten which one, has an MM added after the name but I'm fairly certain he wasn't WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 26 May , 2012 Share Posted 26 May , 2012 Just Google 'Brass Military Bedplate' and click on images--there are lots and lots of examples, some with the soldiers identificaton and some without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 26 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2012 I forgot to add that the plate was marked up at beginning of service and was usually without rank, thus a soldier could and did retain it for his entire service, regardless of career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 26 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2012 A quick scan of a kosher IG ........ space for name and number, and DUTY and maker at rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 26 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2012 and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgardiner1418 Posted 26 May , 2012 Share Posted 26 May , 2012 Grumpy, I have a named WW1 example to the Grenadier Guards with the maker being Hobson & Son, Lexington St, London. It has lost its badge along the way. Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 26 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2012 Grumpy, I have a named WW1 example to the Grenadier Guards with the maker being Hobson & Son, Lexington St, London. It has lost its badge along the way. Paul. Yes, there are examples of plates which use a regimental cap badge affixed, as opposed to stamped into the metal. These are not only war-time expedients, but crop up before and after. I have a c. 1925 WG thus, but the badge affixed is too small for the cap badge ......... very strange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgardiner1418 Posted 26 May , 2012 Share Posted 26 May , 2012 Grumpy, Thanks for that. I wonder if the missing badge is due to recycling? The plate was given to me by a friend whose father served in the 4th Battalion G.G. He joined in 1915, the name on the plate is a 2nd Battalion man killed in December 1914 and so it could have been a case of “take that badge off that and put it in your cap” Vic’s dad keeping the plate out of respect? Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 26 May , 2012 Share Posted 26 May , 2012 and How was the duty stamp put on without showing on the front? Would not stamping the front with the soldier's name not foul up the duty stamp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 26 May , 2012 Share Posted 26 May , 2012 Provided the side with the badge and Irish Guards was in 'fresh air' so to speak, ie. not supported, then no, it would not be affected by stamping 'Duty' on the reverse, provided it is only a light stamping If you see what I mean? Unless of course it was all done at the same time with the same tool, ie. stamped all in one action and the 'Duty' may only be a shallow stamping compared to the badge and Irish Guards, and any sign on the other side could be ground and polished out afterwards. Two possible ideas. Perhaps it would not matter if the stamping of the soldier's details showed on the reverse of the bed-plate--it depends how hard the stamps were hit with the hammer!! and if well supported on a steel plate it wouldn't show greatly anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 26 May , 2012 Share Posted 26 May , 2012 Provided the side with the badge and Irish Guards was in 'fresh air' so to speak, ie. not supported, then no, it would not be affected by stamping 'Duty' on the reverse. If you see what I mean? No I don't - sorry - can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 26 May , 2012 Share Posted 26 May , 2012 I think I already have done my best without diagrams or a practical demonstration!!--perhaps you could use your imagination--I just knew that I shouldn't have started on this one!! Sorry, I can't help any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 27 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2012 Generally, DUTY and makers name are very shallow stampings, whereas the front stampings/ pressings etc are deep and just about visible from behind. The heavier handed soldiers nearly blast right through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 11 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2012 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW2-THE-ARGYLL-AND-SUTHERLAND-HIGHLANDERS-BRASS-BADGED-BED-PLATE-/261041654463?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item3cc74b8abf This one has attracted four bids ............. it CANNOT be a genuine bed/duty plate. I doubt if it every was anything except a brass blank before someone got to work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 17 August , 2012 Share Posted 17 August , 2012 As promised earlier on, just dragged out of loft (I know my loft produces a few items but there is about 40 years of eclectic collecting around the house). All picked up more than a few years ago so i have no doubt all genuine. 1. Interestingly the badge on the Northumberland Fusiliers has been gilded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 17 August , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 August , 2012 Nice collection: most of the soldiers have post-1920 numbers, and one can see the varying degrees of skill/ care used in the punching. One needs to be a regimental expert [ie know about/ collect bed plates for a particular regiment] but generally prices have not been such as to make faking an attractive hobby. Oddly enough it is the NF version that would have me, at least, pause. Where does name and number go? I expect there are NF plates around that would answer my query. My S Staffs [same know design] is still AWOL, but then its a big attic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 17 August , 2012 Share Posted 17 August , 2012 The N Staffs, Sherwood Foresters and RF are maker marked Narborough, Birmingham. The Queen's and Sherwood Foresters are the only ones with DUTY on the reverse. Now where did I put the button sticks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 17 August , 2012 Share Posted 17 August , 2012 Found a couple more under the water tank, heres one with a WW1 link. Both of these are marked F Narborough the guards example has DUTY on the back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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