tn.drummond Posted 30 April , 2012 Share Posted 30 April , 2012 Can anyone help in identifying the attached please. What I know Image is from a recent postcard acquisition. Reverse suggests the sender is a Frank Dodd based at Windsor and shortly to move to Purbright. Date is June 14th 1913, Assumption Frank is pictured in attachment. What I think I might know Rank is a Household Cavalry Corporal, possibly lance even though two chevrons and a crown. Oddity Seems to be wearing Queens Crown on arm and kings crown on Pillbox cap. What I want to know? A large number of Frank Dodd's exist on various records and I'd like to narrow this particular one down if I can. Am I right in assuming Household Cavalry ? Any way of identifying which Regiment, particularly from cap (I'm assuming KC is significant to rank and not Regimental) ? Any suggestions gratefully received. Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron2165 Posted 30 April , 2012 Share Posted 30 April , 2012 Hi, I'm sure he's a L/Cpl. Rather grand looking but still Lance Jack. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 30 April , 2012 Share Posted 30 April , 2012 I'm not sure, but would a corporal's stripes with crown indicate a corporal, with two stripes, no crown, being a lance corporal? This is the Guards, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 30 April , 2012 Share Posted 30 April , 2012 Lance Corporal of Horse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron2165 Posted 30 April , 2012 Share Posted 30 April , 2012 I thought L/Cpl of Horse was 3 stripes and a crown, equivilant of Cpl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 30 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 30 April , 2012 Lance Corporal of Horse I must admit Lance Corporal of Horse is what was in the back of my mind... .. any help on which particular regiment he represents would still be most helpful as would comment on the crown conundrum. Thanks to all so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron2165 Posted 30 April , 2012 Share Posted 30 April , 2012 Hi, I just found this site with Household ranks. It might be things were different during WW1 http://householdcava...fo/hcranks.html Regards Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 30 April , 2012 Author Share Posted 30 April , 2012 Hi, I just found this site with Household ranks. It might be things were different during WW1 http://householdcava...fo/hcranks.html Regards Cam Many thanks Cam - seems to nail the rank issue. Not sure if this is a sprat to tease or a red herring but I think the crown on his arm is the 'Indian' crown as worn by the 7th Hussars. Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 April , 2012 Share Posted 30 April , 2012 Can anyone help in identifying the attached please. What I know Image is from a recent postcard acquisition. Reverse suggests the sender is a Frank Dodd based at Windsor and shortly to move to Purbright. Date is June 14th 1913, Assumption Frank is pictured in attachment. What I think I might know Rank is a Household Cavalry Corporal, possibly lance even though two chevrons and a crown. Oddity Seems to be wearing Queens Crown on arm and kings crown on Pillbox cap. What I want to know? A large number of Frank Dodd's exist on various records and I'd like to narrow this particular one down if I can. Am I right in assuming Household Cavalry ? Any way of identifying which Regiment, particularly from cap (I'm assuming KC is significant to rank and not Regimental) ? Any suggestions gratefully received. Suddery You will find all the details for 1914 in this thread: http://1914-1918.inv...showtopic=67470 Several changes took place in 1936 and there was a further change later to bring the H Cav in line with the Foot Guards vis-a-vis the privileges that they (the foot guards) afforded to Lance Sergeants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 1 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 1 May , 2012 Thanks Frogsmile, quite a complex thread but Corporal it would appear to be (my word, Grumpy and Graham Stewart put some work in on that one). I'm still no further with a specific regiment and wonder if that may be resolved by matching the banding on the pillbox cap. If not I may be able to work out a viable date to tally with a diary entry for a move from Windsor to Pirbright for the first Monday after June 14th 1913 - if such documents are available on-line. Pretty much searched the F and Frank Dodd's to a conclusion without a Household match - a number of Yeoman seem the only mounted types. Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper LG Posted 6 May , 2012 Share Posted 6 May , 2012 Lance Corporal or Corporal. Both wear the same rank badges. The type of crown denotes Victorian.Consult Household Cavalry Archives at Windsor or Household Cavalry Museum at Horeseguards for more information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 7 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2012 Lance Corporal or Corporal. Both wear the same rank badges. The type of crown denotes Victorian.Consult Household Cavalry Archives at Windsor or Household Cavalry Museum at Horeseguards for more information I'll be sensitive to assuming too much knowledge in reply as I note the SQMC moniker, but... There is a detailed thread covering this issue My link which is at variance with your suggestion regarding rank badges; the evidence seems to point at two stripes with a crown for Corporal during the WW1 period. Subsequent changes have since occurred. The crown matter is also not clear. As I state in posting no. 1 the crown on the upper arm is, I am pretty certain, Victoria's 'India' crown whereas the crown on the pillbox is KC. The card was posted in 1913 which supports the KC but also creates the anomaly of the arm - I certainly doubt the Corporal concerned waited 12 years to post his handsome image. Thanks for the advice about potential contacts. Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May , 2012 Share Posted 7 May , 2012 I think I have a definitive answer. MHS Special Pub 1997 on Cavalry Arm Badges, by Linaker and Dine, makes clear that the crown shown was known as the Albert Pattern and came into use by both regiments of Life Guards in January 1881, when the previous large Victorian crown with arched top was ordered to be returned to store. This Albert Pattern then remained in use for the remainder of Victoria's reign and was not replaced until the accession of Edward VII, when the 'Imperial' crown was adopted instead. Plate 1.2, in said book, shows two 2nd LG soldiers wearing undress uniform with two chevrons surmounted by the Albert crown (which came in large and small sizes) and clarifies that they are Corporals. One of the soldiers is in a loose working jacket (frock) and wears the smaller crown above braid chevrons and the other man is dressed identically to your photo in stable jacket, broad lace chevrons and the larger Albert crown. It is therefore confirmed that your image shows a Corporal of either 1st or 2nd Life Guards in stable jacket (both regiments stable dress was identical). A small embroidered Albert crown was worn as the NCOs forage (pillbox) cap badge by all three regiments of the Household Cavalry at that time, but later changed to the Imperial in the same way and for the same reason. As always with these things there are no absolutes and old Victorian crowns were used up on field (khaki) uniforms for the 1884 (camel borne) Sudan Campaign and, as late as 1906, some NCOs were seen still wearing the Albert crown several years after they should have changed to the Imperial version. Old soldiers always like to 'show' that they are old soldiers and I believe that your photo shows one of these latter NCOs with an Albert crown on his 'old' stable jacket and an Imperial crown on his 'newer' forage cap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May , 2012 Share Posted 7 May , 2012 Lance Corporal or Corporal. Both wear the same rank badges. The type of crown denotes Victorian.Consult Household Cavalry Archives at Windsor or Household Cavalry Museum at Horeseguards for more information This is true but relates to a change made after both World Wars were long over. One crown is GM and the other cloth, with the latter marking the more junior rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 7 May , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2012 As always Frogsmile, thanks for the time taken in providing the definitive answer. My postcard is now filed as "Corporal, Lifeguards (1st/2nd) in Stable Jacket c1913" Best regards Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 May , 2012 Share Posted 7 May , 2012 As always Frogsmile, thanks for the time taken in providing the definitive answer. My postcard is now filed as "Corporal, Lifeguards (1st/2nd) in Stable Jacket c1913" Best regards Suddery It's an interesting image, as it must rank as one of the latest sightings of the Albert Pattern arm badge after its ostensible replacement, according to regulation, in 1903 and therefore still being worn some 10-years later. Proof once again that even in a body as closely scrutinised as the Household Cavalry, less attention was paid to undress uniform. A situation that was aided by government parsimony and an old soldiers natural desire for distiction in his dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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