How long from Britain to Egypt?

[anthony osborne]

Would anyone have an idea what the average troopship voyage from Britain to Egypt with reinforcements might have taken?

Thanks,

Ant

[michaeldr]

I can give an example if it will help

1st Lancs Fusiliers

sailed from Avonmouth 16th April

Arrived Malta 23rd

Left Malta 25th

Arrived Alexandria 28th.

Details from Westlake's 'British Regiments at Gallipoli'

[peter4447]

Another example:

4th Royal Scots.

Sailed from Liverpool 25th May 1915 in 'Empress of Britain'

Arrived and disembarked at Aboukir, Egpyt on 4th June 1915.

Baggage, Band instruments and 1 Sgt plus 4 Ptes left at Alexandria to look after these items.

11th June 1915 the Battalion re-embarked at Alexandria on the same troopship 'Empress of Britain'

13th June 1915 Arrived Gallipoli.

Peter4447

[John_Hartley]

42nd Division:

Left Southampton - 10/9/14

Arrived Alexandria - 25/9/14

[egbert]

My own experience, from Gibraltar into the Suez Canal: full 3 seadays and arrival the fourth at 20knots

[centurion]

My own experience, from Gibraltar into the Suez Canal: full 3 seadays and arrival the fourth at 20knots

Not particularly relevant I suspect as your ship was no doubt faster than most of those of the period and there was nothing lurking in the Med ready to torpedo it (especially as I suspect you didn't publish your travel plans on the forum if it was after you introduced your insect avatar ) so your vessel wouldn't have to pick up a convoy. From the figures so far published and the experiences of two of my relatives at the time I suspect that the average would be about 15 days from Britain more if you were travelling with cargo. However a good number did not travael direct fron the UK by ship but went to Calais, on by rail to Marseilles and then by ship to Egypt. I think this may have been quicker but expensive. A great uncle used this route when on leave/training.

[egbert]

Not particularly relevant I suspect as your ship was no doubt faster than most of those of the period and there was nothing lurking in the Med ready to torpedo it (especially as I suspect you didn't publish your travel plans on the forum if it was after you introduced your insect avatar ) so your vessel wouldn't have to pick up a convoy. From the figures so far published and the experiences of two of my relatives at the time I suspect that the average would be about 15 days from Britain more if you were travelling with cargo. However a good number did not travael direct fron the UK by ship but went to Calais, on by rail to Marseilles and then by ship to Egypt. I think this may have been quicker but expensive. A great uncle used this route when on leave/training.  

I am definitely not sailing on SS Wisenheimer, thats why I mentioned my ship is sailing from Gibraltar to Suez Canal at 20 , two zero, knots

[anthony osborne]

Brilliant detail all - very much appreciated. This expands my my search scope for working out (as near as possible) when my GG Grandfather was torpedoed.

Would troops/reinforcements have travelled on troopships only or would they have travelled on general cargo ships also I wonder?

My GG Grandfather was in the Army Service Corps, number SS/20710. He was a shoe maker from Northampton so presumably his skills were of use to the army - could he therefore have been travelling with supplies for the front line troops? Anyway, it looks like he didn't make it to Egypt but did survive the experience - thankfully.

Ant

[centurion]

Brilliant detail all - very much appreciated. This expands my my search scope for working out (as near as possible) when my GG Grandfather was torpedoed.

Would troops/reinforcements have travelled on troopships only or would they have travelled on general cargo ships also I wonder?

My GG Grandfather was in the Army Service Corps, number SS/20710. He was a shoe maker from Northampton so presumably his skills were of use to the army - could he therefore have been travelling with supplies for the front line troops? Anyway, it looks like he didn't make it to Egypt but did survive the experience - thankfully.

Ant

If you know the name of the ship a search on the WW1 part of U boat net might well tell you where it was torpedoed (althogh possibly not of it were a KuK sub that did the dirty deed and not a German )

[anthony osborne]

Forgive my ignorance - what's a KuK sub?

Ant

[Anneca]

Would anyone know if the vessel 'Huntsend' which left Devonport on 5 June 1916 would have arrived in Alexandria via Malta or any other port?

[centurion]

Forgive my ignorance - what's a KuK sub?

Ant

Kaiserlich und Königlich (empire and kingdom - the dual monarchy of Austria-Hungary) Franz Joseph was the Austrian Emperor and the King of Hungary which from 1867 were effectively seperate entities ruled by the same monarch ( a bit like England and Scotland before the act of union but marginally more integrated). About 1890 ish KuK was adopted as the official designation. The KuK navy had some very effective U boat commanders (one of whom later appears in the Sound of Music played by Christopher Plummer)

[Guest]

1333979433[/url]' post='1737356']

Would anyone have an idea what the average troopship voyage from Britain to Egypt with reinforcements might have taken?

Thanks,

Ant

Ant the average time for the voyage of the 9 ships that took the 12 Yeomanry units of the 2nd Mounted Div to Alexandria was 14 days. The longest took 16 days and the shortest took 12. The mighty RMS Olympic (sister ship of the doomed RMS Titanic) took just 6 days to reach Lemnos in late Sep 1915. Not quite Alexandria but by my guesstimation she would have made Alex in 8 or 9 days. It could do a steady 22 knots I believe.

I think U Boat threat would have made a massive difference and routes following the sinking of HMT Royal Edward in Aug 1915 would have lengthened the journey. Similarly there are records of ships milling around in channels waiting for destroyer escorts and thereby losing a day as was the case for the RMT Olympic on 25th Sep 1915 according to Maj Edward Cadogan who recorded the journey in his diary when serving with the 1/1st Loyal Suffolk Hussars. MG

[anthony osborne]

MG,

many thanks for your insight. My struggle now is to identify the transport/troop ship my Great Great Grandfather was on when he was torpedoed/sunk whilst on his way to Alexandria. His date of qualification (according to his MIC) was 15th November 1915, assuming this is the date of embarkation, I am trying to identify a transport sunk before December 1st.

A number of threads (including a couple I started) have turned up lists of ships sunk but none seem to fit - it's a needle in a hay stack!

Thanks MG,

Ant

[Guest]

1334692538[/url]' post='1740910']

MG,

many thanks for your insight. My struggle now is to identify the transport/troop ship my Great Great Grandfather was on when he was torpedoed/sunk whilst on his way to Alexandria. His date of qualification (according to his MIC) was 15th November 1915, assuming this is the date of embarkation, I am trying to identify a transport sunk before December 1st.

A number of threads (including a couple I started) have turned up lists of ships sunk but none seem to fit - it's a needle in a hay stack!

Thanks MG,

Ant

Date of qualification will be the date he disembarked from whatever ship rescued him. I think it should be easy to work it out. I will revert. MG

[Tom Wales]

Ant the average time for the voyage of the 9 ships that took the 12 Yeomanry units of the 2nd Mounted Div to Alexandria was 14 days. The longest took 16 days and the shortest took 12. The mighty RMS Olympic (sister ship of the doomed RMS Titanic) took just 6 days to reach Lemnos in late Sep 1915. Not quite Alexandria but by my guesstimation she would have made Alex in 8 or 9 days. It could do a steady 22 knots I believe.

I think U Boat threat would have made a massive difference and routes following the sinking of HMT Royal Edward in Aug 1915 would have lengthened the journey. Similarly there are records of ships milling around in channels waiting for destroyer escorts and thereby losing a day as was the case for the RMT Olympic on 25th Sep 1915 according to Maj Edward Cadogan who recorded the journey in his diary when serving with the 1/1st Loyal Suffolk Hussars. MG

Gloucester Castle (former liner converted to hospital ship ) left Avonmouth on Feb 28th 1915 , fleet arrived Malta March 8th and Lemnos March 11th. Not Egypt (went there later) but gives some indication of timings

[sotonmate]

AOz

Your ship would almost certainly be contained within the file WO25/3537 at Kew,which covers ships from UK to Abroad for the months of Oct-Dec 1915. The file contains details of the ship's loadings (Medi-destined seem only to have a military purpose even if not designated as a troopship) at UK ports and it's voyage, and ports of call, to destination. There will be lists of units carried,names of Officers but only numbers of ORs shipped. It might be that the file gets noted if the ship fails to arrive,and just maybe,the cause.

I have seen a few of these files but haven't needed to search for one that didn't arrive, as yet.The frequent noting of ASC dribs and drabs are often a feature,the Officers sometimes have a unit to which they travel,ORs not so clear and I have got the impression that they are drafted on arrival in Egypt.

As it's Hug-an-Ozzy Week( has a year passed already?)I will see if I can help you along the way in a few days.

Sotonmate

[anthony osborne]

Sotonmate,

that would be absolutely fabulous, much appreciated. I have trawled through lists of ships lost around that time but am uncertain whether the list is complete or whether they were carrying troops or small drafts or not - any information that would narrow down the search would greatly help. I will be going back to Kew myself in the next month or two to look up some other unit histories so can follow on from where ever you manage to get to.

Your experience, efforts and help are much appreciated I can assure you.

Regards,

'A-Well-Hugged-Ozzy!'

[sotonmate]

AOz

Took a good look at the file WO25/3557 from Oct to Dec 1915.Over 60 ships carried troops/cargo to Alex in that time,even after excluding large troopships (passenger liners) that I knew did not suffer damage or loss from attacks.I saw no incident remarks on any of them,in fact I get the distinct impression that they are merely departure papers which are advised to a higher UK authority at the time of sailing.

I then sought another file which recorded maritime intelligence/incidents in the Medi for a similar period,ADM137/4102.I would recommend it as a good read,packed as it is with incident reports,sightings of U-boats,reports from lighthousekeepers,landwatchers ..etc... Particularly intriguing to see on several occasions that subs which had made attacks seemed to suffer from dual nationality at some point in the process and couldn't decide whether they were Austrian or German ! No surprise as the Germans were supplying U-Boats in parts down the Danube for assembly once they had travelled to the Black Sea,and for use in the Medi and Aegean. So perhaps a KuK sub wasn't a KuK sub at all !

There are reports of attacks and sinkings by U-boat for the length of the Medi as far as to the east of Crete.

I would recommend that in your next visit you take a look for yourself,perhaps in the meantime narrowing down dates a bit. What I will do is transcribe the list I made and let you have it sometime soon.Your e-address by PM would be useful.

Sotonmate

[anthony osborne]

Sotonmate,

your expertise and most importantly your time and effort are greatly appreciated.

Thanks a million.

Ant

AOz

Took a good look at the file WO25/3557 from Oct to Dec 1915.Over 60 ships carried troops/cargo to Alex in that time,even after excluding large troopships (passenger liners) that I knew did not suffer damage or loss from attacks.I saw no incident remarks on any of them,in fact I get the distinct impression that they are merely departure papers which are advised to a higher UK authority at the time of sailing.

I then sought another file which recorded maritime intelligence/incidents in the Medi for a similar period,ADM137/4102.I would recommend it as a good read,packed as it is with incident reports,sightings of U-boats,reports from lighthousekeepers,landwatchers ..etc... Particularly intriguing to see on several occasions that subs which had made attacks seemed to suffer from dual nationality at some point in the process and couldn't decide whether they were Austrian or German ! No surprise as the Germans were supplying U-Boats in parts down the Danube for assembly once they had travelled to the Black Sea,and for use in the Medi and Aegean. So perhaps a KuK sub wasn't a KuK sub at all !

There are reports of attacks and sinkings by U-boat for the length of the Medi as far as to the east of Crete.

I would recommend that in your next visit you take a look for yourself,perhaps in the meantime narrowing down dates a bit. What I will do is transcribe the list I made and let you have it sometime soon.Your e-address by PM would be useful.

Sotonmate

[sotonmate]

Ant

Not forgotten the listing,just looking at some notes on losses. MARQUETTE was lost to torpedo on 24 Oct 1915 en route to,and not too far short of, Salonika. She had 1000 troops on board. I am wondering if any rescued by nearby ship(s) en route to Alex might have taken him there,or if he was part of the complement which was to stay on board after Salonika for Alex. MARQUETTE was not one of the ships I listed as leaving the UK so might have come from a Med port,such as Marseilles or Malta.

Sotonmate

[anthony osborne]

Sotonmate,

didn't think for one minute you'd forgotten - I can see from your activity you have your fingers in many pies! William Garlick's SWB listing show's him enlisting on 19th October 1915 - could he have been sent over seas so soon?

Once again - thanks!

Ant

[anthony osborne]

Sotonmate,

didn't think for one minute you'd forgotten - I can see from your activity you have your fingers in many pies! William Garlick's SWB listing show's him enlisting on 19th October 1915 - could he have been sent over seas so soon?

Once again - thanks!

Ant

[sotonmate]

Ant

Maybe not then ! Also,of course,reflection on my comment about a possible shipping out of Marseilles would not be appropriate as if he did his date into theatre would be a French date !

I will do the list and you can speculate !

Sotonmate (aka Jack Horner)

[bigbill]

Marquette was in convoy from Alexandria October 19th 1915.